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  1. #21
    Robert Amoroso

    Re: warning: rude rant

    William I agree, my sense is that some of us put a spin as to the number of books sold, "traditional" vs. none traditional, on-line, off-line, etc, etc.

    Are actors who perform in "Off Broadway" productions still considered legitimate actors? How about "Off Off Broadway? Are independent film makers still considered "film makers" because their independent?


  2. #22
    Carol O

    Re: warning: rude rant

    Are they putting up their own money, or do others consider their work worth investing in? Does the general public want to see their work? Is their work available to the general public?

    And are they content to be off-Broadway/independent, or do they aspire for Broadway/Big Hollywood Deal?

  3. #23
    william calabrese

    Re: warning: rude rant

    Yes, there is a bais against writers who are not published conventionally. I find it all over. Yet, in my opinion POD publishing is the way of the future. It is too expensive to keep using the outdated printing and distribution methods in use today. The future of (profitable) publishing is selling directly to the reader through online bookstores and distributing a copy at a time using POD printing methods. The one thing that is holding up POD today is that we don't yet know how to produce a hardcover POD. But we will learn.

    Food for thought, is a writer who is published by a small (royalty paying) publisher less "published that one who has been published by one of the "Biggies'?

    As to your point about the actors, I say that anybody who gets payed for acting is a professional actor - just some are more sucessful than the others. Anybody who is published by a royalty-paying publisher is a published author. I would even include self-published authors, if the intent of that publication is to make money. I'm not sure where I would place vanity published authors and amatuer (non-paid) actors.

  4. #24
    Frank Baron

    Re: warning: rude rant

    "The future of (profitable) publishing is selling directly to the reader through online bookstores and distributing a copy at a time using POD printing methods."

    Possibly, but unlikely in most of our lifetimes so I wouldn't hold your breath.

    What percentage of north americans have a computer? Of that number, how many shop online? Of that number, how many shop for books online? Of that number, how many buy more books online than they do in a bricks and mortar store?

    The "look inside the book feature" and the convenience of shopping from home won't soon replace the look, smell, feel and ambience of browsing in a bookstore and flipping through the pages.

    Also, printing and shipping one or two books at a time is much more expensive per unit than offset runs and shipments of dozens or hundreds of copies.

  5. #25
    Sheryl Nantus

    Re: warning: rude rant

    people will ALWAYS want to pick up a book; feel the weight in their hands and flip through random pages before purchasing. Those who buy online usually have their minds made up and are looking for a specific title or author; not randomly searching through Amazon.com for a title that sounds good.

    People enjoy the experience; look at all the Barnes&Noble stores with Starbuck's inside - they want to be able to browse the shelves; stop and look at the specials table, check out the magazine rack and maybe take a chance on something new. They want to meet friends; check out possible dating situations and look through shelves and shelves of books. That ain't ever going to be duplicated online unless you go virtual, and that's way down the line.

    the delusion that online shopping is going to put regular bookstores out of business is only supported by those who want to gain by the illusion. You will sell MORE books on the shelves of your local bookstore than online, guaranteed.

    and, of course, most POD's don't have return policies, so...


  6. #26
    william calabrese

    Re: warning: rude rant

    According to the August 2000 census figures, 51% of households owned at least one computer. At the same time, 42% of households had Internet access on at least one computer (U.S. 2001). This is a dramatic increase from 1997 (the first year the statistic was recorded) when only 18% of U.S. households had Internet access. The number of home computers with Internet access continues to grow each year.

    I agree that bookstores will never disappear, but the convenience and COST of ebooks and ebook distribution methods will, in the near future start to cut in significantly into the market share for books in general. What is really needed is an ebook reader device that: 1) resembles a "real" book as much as possible 2) allows direct wireless downloading of books, magazines, newspapers, etc. 3) has the capability to store multiple books in the same case and switch between texts easily 4) sells in WalMart for $49.95.

    The technology for this sort of a ebook reader device exists, in the e-ink readers that are begining to appear. The price has to go way down, but I don't see why that can't be done, the manufacturing process is fairly simple. . The revolution is nearer than you think.

  7. #27
    Robert Amoroso

    Re: warning: rude rant

    Good afternoon, my reference to acting and "Off Broadway" productions was to simply draw an analogy between what "we" think of as being "professional" and what is not.

    Obviously if one gets compensated for his/her performance, the venue isn't important. I've taken in quit a few "Off Broadway" shows, and it's been my experience (on average), that the performances and the production (the play, the writing, etc,) are equal to many of the "Broadway Shows" that are currently on the "Big White Way".

    Creativity should not be measured simply in terms of dollars spent or dollars earned. Many productions that started in loafs on a shoe string budget, have become successful.

    The playwright who wrote "The Woman Of 121 Street" (it was an Off Off Off Broadway production), who's just now getting recondition in the "mainstream" press, (The New Times) has been a playwright for over 15 years, was he any less "professional"…because he didn't get recognition then, of course not.

    My point again is simply this, in a town like NYC; talent is everywhere, the actors that performed in this particular production, left me spellbound by their performance. They were paid perhaps scale, and all had "day jobs", are they any less talented or "professional then the "Hollywood” elite?

    Obviously, we all come to this process (writing), at various and different times of our lives, yet we all have that one common desire, to tell a story and have other’s respond.


  8. #28

    It probably doesn't matter much...

    how each person defines "published writer." I expect it matters to the individual person but you cannot force anyone else to accept your personal definition.

    For my own work, I wrote 20 storybooks for a toy company. They paid me, hired an illustrator, had them printed in hardback, did the marketing and selling, la la la. Some would say that would make me "published." Good, fine. Most agents would not consider that published. Most traditional book publishers would not consider that published. A few agents/editors *would* consider that published. Some of the above would find it interesting and would feel it says positive things about my ability to meet deadlines, work with the limitations of book format, etc...but when they have their own definition of published, I gotta live with it if I want to deal with them.

    I've written articles and stories that have gone into the hands of over 1 million readers. Imagine that as a book writer -- one million readers. But, to many agents and publishing houses, that does not make me published. To some it does. Again, they may find it interesting and feel it says interesting things about me...but they have their definition, like it or lump it.

    I've written for anthologies that appear in real-live bookstores all over. In book form...wow...still, that doesn't convince all agents and publishers that I am a "published writer." Though it does convince some.

    The professional organization to which I belong considers me published. I have made my living this way for years and years so obviously I consider me published. But that doesn't matter much when I'm marketing my book manuscripts. They like to hear about my experience -- sure. Some even know my name despite my "unpublished" status. But ultimately they are interested in whether I am a marketable commodity -- and they define "published" to maximize my worth as such.

    You can define yourself however you like -- but don't get bent out of shape when those with power over your future -- agents, publishers, reviewers, book buyers...etc...consider you unpublished. They don't care about your self image. They care about you only according to their own needs. And many of them don't consider POD books with limited editing and virtually no store presence to be published because it won't help them sell you. Cry all day but they still won't change their minds. So, if you wanna play the game, you gotta follow the rules of the kid who owns the ball.


  9. #29
    Robert Amoroso

    Re: It probably doesn't matter much...

    My sense is that anyone who's made a living within a creative environment understands all to well the pit falls that lie ahead. I've been in a creative environment all of my adult life, and I've made an excellent living, doing what I loved to do. First as a designer, Art Director, Creative Director and Illustrator, I've won countless marketing and design awards. I've owned my own advertising and marketing service for over 20 years. My point in all of this is that industries change, what was "true" a few years ago isn’t today.

    I would venture to say that very few "illustrators" (if any) actually know how to illustrate by "hand" today. Or for that matter how to design without the aid of a computer…where am I going with this?

    The "writing business" finds itself in the same creative tug-of-war that was reserved for the graphics industry only a few short years ago. Technology will eventually change the publishing business, forever! The "game" is slowly changing, why then all the fuss about POD if it wasn't?


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