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  1. #11
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    Sorry I don't mean to keep asking him questions. I am asking anyone who is interested in talking about it really .

    But I will take what was said, and figure out the rest. Thanks for the input .
    Last edited by ironpony; 01-24-2016 at 03:46 PM.



  2. #12
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    Haha, thanks for the compliment, Rogue, but I'm really just helping him brainstorm--Ironpony's doing all the real work!

    Iron, I'm a she . I don't think just catching the gang with incriminating evidence of the dead cop would be enough evidence to legally jail them. Since the gang would be talking about what they needed to do to prove the dead cop's involvement with their gang, the police might be able to record their conversation and arrest them with that evidence. Do you know someone who works in the law? Maybe you could convince them to help you keep your story realistic with the legal stuff. Most readers don't know all the details of law enforcement, though, so I think your story would work fine if you just made it believable to the average reader (like me). After all, there are many popular detective shows that only have circumstantial evidence.

  3. #13
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    Okay thanks. But at the time the vengeful cops stick guns in their faces, the gang is going to say that the dead cop is not worth avenging cause he is one of them, and they are going to say it, not to want to get arrested, but to save their own lives, by deterring the vengeful cops need for revenge, making them feel that their friend isn't worth it therefore.

    I asked some real life cops but they said that they couldn't see anything happening like this in the real world, and therefore, they do not know how they could help.

  4. #14
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    What I was saying was the cops would hide and record the conversation, so the gang doesn't know they're there and talk normally.

    If the vengeful cops haven't yet seen the evidence of their buddy's wrong-doing, why would they believe the gang? If they literally have their guns in the gang's faces, they're about to blow their heads off, right? If the gang says, "Oh and by the way your buddy was one of us," it would anger the good guys even more. Or were you saying the "vengeful cops stick guns in their faces" figuratively? Does the gang just feel like that's what's happening? If so, that's the scenario I was referring to. These men are running for their lives. At this point they might say or do anything to get the good guys off their back. Something you also need to consider is will this gang kill to save their own skin? Would they be willing to become the hunter, not just the hunted? I don't know how the members of the gang think, so I can only help you so much.

    Have you tried just writing and seeing where it goes? I've had to rewrite my story many times, and all but the last time it's been because of a logical error where the storyline just didn't make sense to me. It's been an interesting adventure, but I'm REALLY happy with how it's turning out now.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Mutt View Post
    Jeez you're going to have to give Elven a cowriter credit on this.
    Funny I said the exact thing to someone else about Ironpony in another forum.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elven Candy View Post
    What I was saying was the cops would hide and record the conversation, so the gang doesn't know they're there and talk normally.

    If the vengeful cops haven't yet seen the evidence of their buddy's wrong-doing, why would they believe the gang? If they literally have their guns in the gang's faces, they're about to blow their heads off, right? If the gang says, "Oh and by the way your buddy was one of us," it would anger the good guys even more. Or were you saying the "vengeful cops stick guns in their faces" figuratively? Does the gang just feel like that's what's happening? If so, that's the scenario I was referring to. These men are running for their lives. At this point they might say or do anything to get the good guys off their back. Something you also need to consider is will this gang kill to save their own skin? Would they be willing to become the hunter, not just the hunted? I don't know how the members of the gang think, so I can only help you so much.

    Have you tried just writing and seeing where it goes? I've had to rewrite my story many times, and all but the last time it's been because of a logical error where the storyline just didn't make sense to me. It's been an interesting adventure, but I'm REALLY happy with how it's turning out now.
    Okay, thank you very much for the advice. Well at this point the gang does not want to kill all the cops, if they don't have to, cause it could cause other problems such as more cops coming after them, and just make things worse. The gang wants tell the vengeful cops that their buddy was one of them, but they want to prove it, so the cops will not become more angry.

    When you ask if the vengeful cops have their guns pointed in the gang's faces 'figuratively', what do you mean by figuratively in this context? I assume you mean that they don't have their guns in the gangs faces at the current time. Well the gang wants to get the evidence to vengeful cops in a way, in which the cops will not blow their heads off.

  7. #17
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    Figuratively basically means "not literally," so yes, I was asking if the police literally had their guns in the gang's faces. I think I understand now what you were saying. You want the gang to send evidence in such a way that won't allow the police to kill them while they give the evidence, and the evidence itself has to be something that won't make the police want to kill them even more, is that correct?

    I'm afraid I still don't have any new ideas on this. Like I said, I don't read many investigative stories (the ones I've read are more children's stories), and very few action flicks have much realism. I still highly recommend (and I'm not trying to drive you crazy with this) you at least try to just write and see what you can come up with. You'll learn what does and doesn't work, and you'll push the limits of your imagination, creativity, and writing abilities. In this last rewrite of my story, I tried writing a basic outline of what events happen when. As I'm writing the story, however, I'm discovering new paths to take and the story just sort of unfolds itself in its own way. I really like how it's turning out, and for the first time in my writing my main character doesn't feel flat. I'm still following the basic ideas of the outline; I'm just "getting there" differently.
    "Don't try to control the reader, just help them along." -- my mom

  8. #18
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    Yes the goal for police is to feel betrayed by their friend being one of them, so they think he is not worth avenging, and will back off. I can write so that the vengeful cops are currently tracking the gang, and then they see from a binoculars that the gang is has some recordings or papers in their hands, and they then move in and confront them all... by doing this, the gang did not have time to get the evidence to the vengeful cops in a way, in which they wouldn't have to actually meet them in person.

    So the now the gang has no choice but to try to show the evidence, to sway them to not kill them.

    I can either use this as my ending, or I can have the vengeful cops catch the villains by completely other means, and the villains do not have any evidence in hand, but just tell the cops that their friend was one of them, in which case, without evidence the cops will not believe them, and become angrier. Or some might become angrier, some might think it's true, and they can argue amongst themselves on whether or not to kill them.

    But even in the previous situation, where the cops are tailing them and catch them with the evidence in hand, they can still argue. Does either of these current endings sound better than the other?

  9. #19
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    Here's the problem: Only you know the story well enough to make such judgments. You have a feel for the situation, the needs and desires driving the protagonist, and the backstory. And of course you're driven by intent, which we can only guess at. So we can only know surface details, and making meaningful comments is difficult.

    Why not post a few pages for comment. If it turns out that structure or characterization issues require changes, that might either resolve or invalidate those issues.

    The thing to remember is that while plot matters, it's the writing that makes the reader need to turn the pages. And given that, it would appear that learning to hook and keep the reader turning pages is a skill that should be perfected first, since it has such far reaching effects on a reader's perception of the story.

    When it comes to that, Hemingway said, “They can’t yank a novelist the way they can a pitcher. A novelist has to go the full nine, even if it kills him.”

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greenstein View Post
    Here's the problem: Only you know the story well enough to make such judgments. You have a feel for the situation, the needs and desires driving the protagonist, and the backstory. And of course you're driven by intent, which we can only guess at. So we can only know surface details, and making meaningful comments is difficult.

    Why not post a few pages for comment. If it turns out that structure or characterization issues require changes, that might either resolve or invalidate those issues.

    The thing to remember is that while plot matters, it's the writing that makes the reader need to turn the pages. And given that, it would appear that learning to hook and keep the reader turning pages is a skill that should be perfected first, since it has such far reaching effects on a reader's perception of the story.

    When it comes to that, Hemingway said, “They can’t yank a novelist the way they can a pitcher. A novelist has to go the full nine, even if it kills him.”
    You realize he's writing a screenplay, right?

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