HomeWritersLiterary AgentsEditorsPublishersResourcesDiscussion
Forum Login | Join the discussion
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 25
  1. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    91
    But I am also having trouble coming up with not only the villain's M.O., but also the method that the police use to catch them. Here is my original idea:

    The way the police catch them is by making a website of fans devoted to the killers. Their victims were not people who treated others badly, and the fans of the website are dedicated to what he is doing, showing support for his vision. The website is all fake though. All fake members, with fake IDs and profiles. It's created by the police as a means for the killers to find the website through the media talking about it, and he joins it. The "fans" on the site keep saying how they want to help the killers by bringing his vision more public.

    Basically the killers were traumatized by bullies while in school growing up, and their targets are those who are bullies to general people in their lives. So the fake fans want to get the killers' message more out there, write books about it, and get his vision for social change going. They post on the website, that they want the killers to post a message back agreeing that they will stop their crimes, as long as the world recognizes what they are trying to accomplish and want people to treat each other better and for the moral decaying in society to stop.

    The fans agree to write and make as many public statements supporting the killers' cause as they can, just so long as he will stop once they do, cause the point will be made as far as it can be then. They tell the killers that even though they are admiring them killing bullies to cause social change, they feel that the killers must reach an end goal and stop, once their point is made. They want to help them make it, they say.

    The killers message the fans using an email that cannot be traced, since they do not want the fans tracing them of course in case of being possibly caught. So the fans send the killers a message back saying that they are not sure if they are the killers or not, because many people on the site claim to be members of the gang, and they are not sure who is for real, and who is just saying they are.

    So they message the gang privately on the site, and tell them that in order to be sure, and come to want to help give the gang what they want, they want to meet the gang in person, in a public place to talk it all out and agree to terms.

    They say in order to establish that they are the real gang, they want the gang to send their one member who was caught and released before. That way they will know the gang is for real, if they send their one member who is already known to the world. But they cannot meet the gang's terms, if they do not send that member to meet in person to go through the specifics with.

    Since the gang would like to have more satisfactory results, they agree to send that member, but they all go to the public place as well, as back up, outside in other areas, in case something goes wrong.

    So they agree to send that one member to meet the fans in a parking structure. The fan goes to meet them and they talk terms. But it's all recorded, cause the fans are cops. The fan figures it out and resists,, causing the cops to take him captive. The other gang members see it happens and rush out of their areas they are hiding in and take on the cops, but fail.

    So this is the climax I want, and some plot turns follow after. But I was told by some readers that I showed it to that my ending sucks for two reasons. For one, they say the villains are too dumb to fall for a trick like this, because they have been so smart not to leave any traceable evidence at the crime scenes for all their murders, which is a lot, yet they fall for this trick. I saw it differently because the cops were attacking their weakness, so they were willing to take more of a risk, since wanting social change was their weakness. But they said that they didn't buy the gang falling for that, especially enough to meet in person. I suppose it make sense not to meet in person. I mean the gang could post on the site what they want, or even to the media separately by sending letters or video recordings. But would this be enough for the fake fans to act on, or would could I write it so that they have some reason to meet in person in a public place so the cops can record them and get evidence?

    The second reason is why they say it sucks is because using the internet to catch a gang of murderers is boring. They will have to talk to the gang for months, which I will write in a montage, but readers do not want to see a montage of months of computer work to catch the villains, because it lacks suspense.

    But what do you think? Is the original way the police lure them into a trap, workable?



  2. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    93
    It might be workable, if the gang is the one who contacts the fan page first. The number one "red flag" to me was that the "fans" told the villains to stop the killings. I saw the villains' response being, "We'll stop the killings after society changes," and becoming alerted to the website being fake. The rest of the requirements to meet would also alert the villains to what was going on, and they would likely take the "fan" to a place where they themselves have set a trap for the police. If the police posted fake videos of them doing the same stuff the villains are doing, preaching the same end goal, then the villains might contact the fan page owner and offer him membership. From there, you can figure something out.

    The second "red flag" was the gang rushing out to fight the police. Villains have guns, and they use those guns. Their hiding places would give them a good sightline to the "fan" and other potential police hotspots. When the police revealed themselves, the villains would shoot. That's my thinking, anyway.

    Other than that, it sounds like a workable idea. You just have to work out the kinks. Keep in mind that I don't watch a lot of movies like this story, but when I do they're rarely very realistic. A movie doesn't have to be perfect, just reasonably believable.

    What do you plan to do with the member who betrays them and changes his ways? Is he going to be secretly helping the police? There's a lot of potential to use him.
    Last edited by Elven Candy; 01-20-2016 at 10:29 PM.

  3. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    91
    Okay thanks. Well I though that the fans could be members of society who give the impression that society has changed, but it's all lies, so they would stop the killings based on the fans lying to them.

    As for the idea of fans making their own videos, do you think that maybe the gang would get jealous and see them as a threat, since they are doing the same thing, in their name, and therefore, whatever they choose to do in the future would reflect upon them?

    As for the villains meeting the fans in a hiding place, I think the idea is, to meet in a public place so both parties are more safe, and the fans would probably choose to meet somewhere on their terms, or at least mutually agreed terms, no?

    The member who betrays them is a crooked cop, who suffers from the same problem they do. He betrays them and wants to go to the police, but wants proof first. However, they end up killing him to keep him from talking. This causes other cops in the department to want revenge in the ending I want, as those cops had no idea, of the dead cop's involvement at all. So the police will need another method of getting them all in the same place, at the same time, other than relying on him therefore.

    One person suggested to me that the police get a hold of the dead cop's cellphone and text the villains into meeting somewhere, with the lie being that the police mole, has information on what the police have on them, and it's an emergency.

    However, I am not sure if this would get the whole gang to go meet him which is what I want for the finally, when they are trapped.

    I thought that maybe this idea was too easy though, as they are being fooled by texts, without even a voice confirmation, since their mole is dead, and they wouldn't know it yet, cause the cop's would hide it in order to fool them.

    But which method of catching the villains incriminating themselves, is better? Using the dead cop's cellphone and texting them to fool them?

    Or the website idea, which uses their own weakness to bait them, since they crave recognition?
    Last edited by ironpony; 01-21-2016 at 02:03 AM.

  4. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    93
    Ahh, I'm getting a better picture now. For some reason it didn't occur to me that these guys might have normal jobs (I'm a dunce sometimes, haha). I don't think the cell phone idea would work. You said they killed the guy, so they would know if he's dead or not, and you said the police don't know of his involvement, so how would they know to trick the villains by using his cell phone? The website idea is only one thing--you can use something completely different. You really like the idea of them being caught because of their desire or need to be "famous," so let's roll with that.

    They started out kidnapping people and torturing/killing them to force society to change, right? Have they become twisted into just simply craving attention and fame, even if it's by doing worse evils than what was done to them? If so, you can have the main character (whom I assume is a good guy) figure out their new motivation (perhaps he figures it out because he knew the traitor, and the investigation of his death leads to clues that he was involved in the gang). With that information, he could go on the news and say things that belittle them to purposefully rile them up against him. He could carry a tracking device under his skin so that when the group kidnaps him, his buddies at the FBI can track them. The villains all want a piece of the man who dared to make them seem like some punk kid, so they're all there. Being very arrogant, they don't even bother to put look-outs for police, and boom, it's game, set, match.

  5. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    91
    Oh in the scenario, with the cellphone, what would happen, is is that the cop would break into the leader of the gang's residence, but a booby trap, would go off and burn him to death, and the gang would not be able to tell who they burned with the trap, once they arrived.

    They also do not need to necessarily kill people. What if they just kidnapped them and humiliated them to make a point. As long as I the main plot centers around a kidnapping, that is. Then maybe they could release their victims, who could not identify them since they wore masks and disguised their voices.

    I also thought of the idea, of the MC making himself a target. However, by putting himself on the defensive, he never knows when they are going to strike, so he would have to wait for an unknown period of time.

    The main character, is actually a cop who wants revenge on them, and uses his police resources to get it. He wants revenge for being raped by them, but I also want him to be on the run because the honest police are trying to stop him from killing any of them. So he is on the run from the honest police, but at the same time, would have to wait for the gang to capture him. But he doesn't necessarily need to take revenge on them. He could invite the others to come and get the gang, and save him.

    However, if they gang is arrested, is that enough proof to try them for killing the cop, since they cops could not prove it before? Or is it enough to try them for the previous victims? The only crime they would have proof of, is kidnapping the current cop, wouldn't they?

  6. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    93
    Ok, so this is my understanding of the plot as-is:

    There's a group of socially awkward people who were severely bullied in school. They somehow get to know one another and decide to form this "fix society" gang. They start to kidnap and torture bullies to prove their point and tell society that "this is how we were treated, now fix yourselves or we'll keep doing it!" The main character is a cop who was a bully to someone, and they kidnap and rape him before letting him go. He wants revenge on them, and is temporarily relieved from duty because of his trauma. The rest of his division is worried about him, so when they find out he's hunting the gang, they try to find him so they can keep an eye on him. The MC, not wanting revenge to be ripped from him, evades his police buddies and hides out while searching for the villains. Then one of the villains, also a cop, decides that what they're doing is wrong, and breaks into the leader's house to get the proof he needs to arrest the gang members. This triggers a booby trap which then kills him. The villains enter the house and find the body. They ditch the body somewhere where the police find it and figures out it is one of their own. They keep his identity a secret. This is where it gets fuzzyThe police become angry at whoever did this to their friend and figure out it was the gang, but they don't figure out their friend was in the gang. They then set a trap for the gang, and catch them. This whole time, the police don't know who is in the gang.

    Is that about right? If the MC wants to kill these guys, why does he care about evidence? He could have gotten caught by the "honest cops" and made a deal (maybe he got caught on purpose, because he knows he needs their help). The deal is that he stops going for revenge, and instead becomes the bait for the trap. Once the gang is arrested for kidnapping the MC, the police will have a right to search the villains' houses and find all the evidence they want. There could also be a gang member who squeals for leniency because he's terrified of jail.

    There is one question though: why didn't the villain cop just bring a tape recorder or something to a group meeting, or slowly gather evidence? Why break into the leader's house? Is the leader careful to make sure all proof is there? Does the group check everyone to make sure no one has a mike somewhere on them?

  7. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    91
    Okay thanks. Well the reason why the main cop also cares about evidence, is because if they are arrested and convicted, then the main cop would not go so far as to kill them. The reason why he feels he has to kill them, is because there is no evidence to put them away, and punish them. But if there is evidence, then he will have his faith restored, if that makes sense. So I was thinking he could perhaps be open to it, and have his faith restored in the end. Or he would have his faith stripped away, and kill them all, but haven't decided which ending is best yet.

    As for one gang member squealing on the others, I thought it would be more exciting, if they were all caught at the same time, rather than one rat out the others, and create a chain of arrests. I thought the climax could be faster and quicker, if they are just all trapped at once.

    The reason why the crooked cop, didn't bring a tape recorder with him ever, is because they always search everyone for wires, and recorders, every time they meet up. So he has never had the chance. Plus the crooked cop, is a new recruit, and was not in for very long. Once things go to far, with the gang, he regrets it, and wants out, but they have collateral on him, which I have not decided on what yet. So he keeps trying to get proof, but by the time he finally comes close to getting some, he is killed.

    But yes you have the plot down in a nutshell, there.
    Last edited by ironpony; 01-21-2016 at 03:38 AM.

  8. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    93
    I meant he squeals once they're captured. Like he tells them everything about their past crimes and where the evidence is stashed and such. How much time passes between the crooked cop dies and the trap being set? If he's dead for too long, the gang will notice his absence.

    I'd think that with them being decked out in the gang gear doing the gang thing when they're caught, it'd be enough proof to put them away for all the past crimes (especially since they posted their previous crimes all over the internet). Sort of like being caught "red-handed," y'know? But I also don't know the way the law works, so...yeah, take that with a grain of salt. Once the police figure out who they are or where they are, they can set a trap and capture them all. Do you want the police to know who's in the gang before the trap is set?

    Basically, the MC wants these guys to pay one way or the other, right? Makes sense, but you need to figure out which direction you want him to take. If he decides to kill the members of the gang, you likely won't have the "all bad guys vs. all good guys" ending you're looking for. You could, of course, have the finale you want, and then because of lack of proof the gang doesn't get the prison sentence the MC feels they ought to get, and so he then kills them. I don't know. I'm a little fried, sorry! I hope I helped in some way...

  9. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    91
    Oh no problem, thanks for the help.

    Well the police only know who two of the gang members are before the the rest are trapped in the climax. However, they have their doubts about the two, which is why the MC is frustrated, cause they cannot get any proof. But those are the only two, the police know of until the ending.

    As for how much time passes, this is tricky. I want the MC to take revenge, or at least begin too, causing the others to go after him. The reason why he takes revenge is because the gang gets away with raping him, and killing the cop later. If I write it so that the MC knows that the cop was bad, and uses the cell phone idea to trick the gang into meeting up, cause they think he is still alive, then the MC will have to do it and then meet up with the gang, and kill them, very shortly after the cop is killed. Like a day after, before the gang finds out that the person who is burned to death, is their associate.

    But this is tricky, because the MC would probably want to wait to see if the police gather enough evidence, to charge the two gang members with the death of the cop, first. He would probably want to see, before deciding all hope is lost, and is going to kill them. But he does not have time to wait to see that they will not charge them, if he decides to act on the cell phone idea. So it kind of feels like a paradox, know what I mean?

  10. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    93
    If you go with the cell phone idea, you really need to make the MC make his decision quickly because of the timeline issue. As you mention, there isn't a lot of room for him to debate it. If the police department figure out that the dead cop was a gang member, they would likely set a trap, thus the MC wouldn't have to decide between the two unless he really just wants to kill the gang members. If you want him to both try to work with the department and kill them himself, you could have him find the cell phone and have a hunch the cop was with the gang. From there, he could tell the police chief who basically says he/she disagrees with the MC and drops the subject. The MC becomes furious, because he KNOWS the cop was with them, so he uses the cell phone to trick the villains into a room with a bomb or whatever.

    You keep saying you'd really like the trap to work because of the villains' need to be famous or have recognition. I don't think the cell phone idea will do that, unless you have an idea that I'm just not coming up with.

    WARNING: grammar Nazi alert!
    I've noticed you tend to have a lot of comma splices. You may want to review comma rules so you don't accidentally put them into your scripts.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts