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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Mutt View Post
    BTW, your "advice" about putting the genre and word count first is terrible advice.
    That's what you said, child, an were proven wrong. A reasonable person. faced with evidence that they were mistaken would, say, "Whoops. I guess you were right," and move on. You, though, tried to find proof that you were right, and twice, presented "proof" that you were wrong—and couldn't admit that, either.

    So, as always, you tried to misdirect and change the subject, as if you hadn't screwed up. And when that failed you resorted to your usual inept attempts to insult me. And that doesn't work for the same reason you screwed up when you said genre and word count shouldn't come first: you're not all that good at reasoning, and assume everyone else faces the same problem. You substitute personal attack for fact. In other words, you Donald Trump the problem.



  2. #22
    Rogue Mutt
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    A reasonable person. faced with evidence that they were mistaken would, say, "Whoops. I guess you were right," and move on
    Well yes. Which is why it's so curious that you can't practice what you preach.

    In one response I said:
    Your buddy Noah Lukeman's own book How to Write a Great Query Letter: Insider Tips and Techniques for Success doesn't agree with either of us. It actually says your first sentence should be about why you're approaching the agent, whether because you know he/she personally or yours is similar to something he/she represented.
    And in the next response I said:
    Of course you left out where Noah Lukeman, the guy you supposedly talked to, writes something in his book that's contrary to your first-hand "knowledge."
    To which you raved:
    You're also making the idiotic claim that somewhere unspecified within an unnamed book the, author says something unspecified, about something undefined, that disagrees with what I said at an unknown time and place. That's beyond pathetic and well along the path to incoherent.
    And yet you can't admit that you were wrong. I really do think your inability to follow a simple conversation is a sign of a deeper problem. Whether it's physical or mental I can't say, but instead of continuing to bluster, you should just be a grown up (for once) and admit you were wrong. Then go get some help.

    As for "proving me wrong," you didn't. You found some stuff and I found some stuff. So I guess call it a draw.

  3. #23
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    As for "proving me wrong," you didn't. You found some stuff and I found some stuff. So I guess call it a draw.
    Not a well thought out try, kid. You were wrong with your original assertion. Several authorities and ten query letters said that clearly and decisively.

    Then you quoted two sources that supported what I said, demonstrating that you're too damn lazy to read more than a line or two.

    You tried to quote Noah Lukeman, and screwed that up, too—again, because you were to lazy to do more than surface read, and stopped when you found something that seemed to support you. I'm certain that in your own mind you've rationalized it as a natural mistake. But it's not. It's one of failure to check your facts before opening your mouth. So it's not a matter of you and I quoting different sources. It's that every time you tried you were wrong because the real world doesn't match your suppositions, and you've not yet learned that believing something has nothing at all to wo with the accuracy of that belief.

    I wouldn't care were you talking about what you do. You can do as you please. But here, the OP made the error of not telling the reader, up front, the genre. I mentioned what publishers and agents say and you came back with bad advice—your own personal opinion—which if followed might well generate a rejection before the end of paragraph one. And that matters, and needs to be corrected with real-world data.

    If you'd take the time to check your facts we wouldn't keep on ending up like this.

    “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”
    ~ Mark Twain

  4. #24
    Rogue Mutt
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    Several authorities and ten query letters said that clearly and decisively.
    Ha. Actually, you didn't find 10. You only found 7, which is a pathetic sample size. According to your own assertion:

    And of the first ten letters in Writers Digest's set of successful query letters, seven list genre first, many with the word count, too.
    Seriously, your memory is awful. This whole thread has been a demonstration of that. Again and again you've been caught screwing up. How long is it going to take for you to admit it?

    But that would be the grown up response, not the geriatric toddler response. I just really hope you get someone to give you a senility test at some point.

    Until the next thread.

  5. #25
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    Ha. Actually, you didn't find 10. You only found 7, which is a pathetic sample size. According to your own assertion:
    A small sample size only because as always, you were too lazy to look at the many letters on the site yourself. Had I taken the time I could have shown you a hundred, and referred you to a dozen books, by page number. But that wouldn't have been enough, because you're not looking to advise people on writing, or to get at the truth, you're here to argue for the sake of being disagreeable.

    It's a funny thing. I mentioned you to my son-in-law, as an example of someone who's more interested in discord and game-playing than being part of a community. When I told him what you write he held up both hands, palm out, as he said, "Well, that explains it. He's got serious anger issues. But I'm certain you already know that.

    You're wasting your time trying to insult me, though. Forgetting how ineptly you do it, for it to matter I would have to in some way respect you. So, you keep spewing your missives of poison and misinformation, as you always do, and continue your mission of driving new members away. I'll keep on doing the one thing you can't manage: giving accurate, meaningful information, supplied by publishing professionals. And then I'll let the posters decide who to listen to.

    You can continue wasting time doing this, or buckle down, do your research, and give better advice. It's the only way you can touch me.

  6. #26
    Junior Member adoni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greenstein View Post
    That's what you said, child, an were proven wrong. A reasonable person. faced with evidence that they were mistaken would, say, "Whoops. I guess you were right," and move on. You, though, tried to find proof that you were right, and twice, presented "proof" that you were wrong—and couldn't admit that, either.

    So, as always, you tried to misdirect and change the subject, as if you hadn't screwed up. And when that failed you resorted to your usual inept attempts to insult me. And that doesn't work for the same reason you screwed up when you said genre and word count shouldn't come first: you're not all that good at reasoning, and assume everyone else faces the same problem. You substitute personal attack for fact. In other words, you Donald Trump the problem.
    Really word count and genre are most important?

    What are you people querying publishers or agents?

    The way it works is HOOK the agent and they could care less about genre or word counts they want an author with a hook that can get into publishers.

    Example

    Dr. whoever, who has multiple doctorates in several areas of academia and theories named after him in mathematics, computer science and physics, has written his latest novel about WHATEVER.

    The past titles of Dr. whoever have been recognized with blah and blah and blah.

    Recent Titles from Dr. whoever, have reached the #1 Top seller positions on Amazon for GENRE, GENRE, GENRE.

    Dr. whoever is seeking competent representation to bring his latest work a 150K word historical look at the life of Jesus to the best publishers for this Genre.

    So in your THEORY about WORD COUNTS the thing I would put last is most important to an agent?

    hahahaha

    Okay, sure, for you maybe.

    An author with achievements should SELL THOSE FIRST then the agent knows they have an intelligent person that is head and shoulders above the plethora of hacks trying to 'author' books who have no qualifications to even attempt to write a book.

    Word count means very little in a query letter for an author that is salable based on qualifications to write about something.
    I created this FREE EBOOKS FORUM TOOL to help Authors hit the top of Twitter using one of my major KLOUT accounts on Twitter It's at FREE EBOOKS FORUM TO HELP AUTHORS Put your Genre in header of post within an hour you will be top of twitter for that Genre

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