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Thread: POV Questions

  1. #1
    DaBlaRR
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    POV Questions

    I understand the basics of what each POV is 1st, 2nd, 3rd limited/omniscient etc.

    Putting it into play is a whole different story.

    I originally wanted to write in 3rd person limited, with one POV character. I then switched to omniscient, with 3 POV characters.

    1. Does at least one of your POV characters always have to be in the scene or can you have a scene without them in it, and describe what's happening with the Non-POV's, but obviously not describing their thoughts? I assume a POV character has to be there seeing as the story is being told through their eyes.

    2. If writing third person omniscient, do you HAVE to describe/disclose thoughts of the POV? I'm not a big fan of doing the whole "tell" thing, I really like to make the effort to show. And I find disclosing thoughts is an easy way out, when it comes to revealing information. Alternatively, can you be omniscient, have more than one POV but only have the capability of knowing the thoughts of one? The reason I would want to do this is because I need scenes with out the MC in it.

    3. My POV, of whom I know his thoughts, knows something that I don't want the reader to know. Since we know all about him, how do I hide this from the reader? Example: He had someone killed, but I do not want the reader to know the MC was behind it. Is this a stupid question?

    4. Am I over thinking all of the above?

    Thanks in advance.



  2. #2
    Rogue Mutt
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBlaRR View Post
    I understand the basics of what each POV is 1st, 2nd, 3rd limited/omniscient etc.

    Putting it into play is a whole different story.

    I originally wanted to write in 3rd person limited, with one POV character. I then switched to omniscient, with 3 POV characters.

    1. Does at least one of your POV characters always have to be in the scene or can you have a scene without them in it, and describe what's happening with the Non-POV's, but obviously not describing their thoughts? I assume a POV character has to be there seeing as the story is being told through their eyes.

    2. If writing third person omniscient, do you HAVE to describe/disclose thoughts of the POV? I'm not a big fan of doing the whole "tell" thing, I really like to make the effort to show. And I find disclosing thoughts is an easy way out, when it comes to revealing information. Alternatively, can you be omniscient, have more than one POV but only have the capability of knowing the thoughts of one? The reason I would want to do this is because I need scenes with out the MC in it.

    3. My POV, of whom I know his thoughts, knows something that I don't want the reader to know. Since we know all about him, how do I hide this from the reader? Example: He had someone killed, but I do not want the reader to know the MC was behind it. Is this a stupid question?

    4. Am I over thinking all of the above?

    Thanks in advance.
    If you're really using 3rd person omniscient then the answer to number 2 is that you can do whatever you want. As for 3 it seems easy enough to not tell the reader that the character was behind it, so long as you aren't having him think, "Ah ha, they don't suspect a thing, the fools! Bwahahahaha" while he rubs his hands together with glee. But you might be better off posting one of the scenes from his POV so everyone can get a better idea what you're doing.

  3. #3
    DaBlaRR
    Guest
    Thanks for the response. I will think about posting something if I can build to courage to face your critique.

  4. #4
    Administrator Wickett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBlaRR View Post
    Thanks for the response. I will think about posting something if I can build to courage to face your critique.


    This guy's already got a grip on how we are around here. Bahaha. No need to fear. It may be a little rough sometimes, but we'll give you the tough skin needed to face anyone.

  5. #5
    DaBlaRR
    Guest
    Ok here is the very first entry in chapter 1. I have done 3 and a half chapters so far... only it's 1200 words so need a couple posts.

    ROMA VII
    CHAPTER I – BLACK PILLAR ISLAND

    Is Black Pillar Island the escape that is going to be the cure all for everything? Christian just can't help but think that a quick fix like this is a far cry from being the end all resolution to years of poison. He thinks life itself and everything that surrounds his life is poison. Well everything but one thing, he at least knows that for sure, even if that one thing has come and gone. If everything around him except for that one thing was poison back home, he concludes everything he will touch wherever he goes will have the same result. He finds it almost comical that his Mother thinks a smaller place to live, in a smaller town, while she works another dead end job, is going to make things different. Can things be different? It is such a frustrating question when the answer always remains the same. Ok, maybe it's not so comical after all.
    He lays sprawled on the floor amongst scattered, unpacked boxes and bags all in disarray. This cluttered small space is now his room. All his thoughts flow through his head like a raging river flowing towards a waterfall, which eventually just falls and falls into a misty pool of nothingness. Some supposedly find this beautiful, Christian finds it empty. But yet he remains lost in deep thoughts swarming in his head as he stares up at the yellow cigarette stained ceiling. “What am I doing here?” He thought.
    His Mother asked him at least three times to put everything away, but he doesn't even know where to start. He doesn't want to start. His self-justified defiance makes him question, why in the hell should he? This wasn't his choice. That bitch should do it if she wants it done. It's the least she can do.
    His hand protects an unopened envelope pressed firmly against his chest, as if he were guarding a priceless treasure that the death of him is the only way it could be pried away from his fingers. He holds it up in the air towards the bedroom light. He is hesitant to open it. He knows everything that has ever been good and that he has cared about is tucked neatly inside this little package. He fears that by reading what it says, that the one positive thing he once had will come crumbling down like everything else in the first fifteen years of his life. If it remains untouched, nothing bad can come from it right? Ignorance to reality can never disappoint a person, he thought. But he knew he had to open it.
    Really though, what did it matter anyway? Whatever he is going to face and confront by opening this envelope isn't going to change anything. It is already a loss with no sense of closure. Whatever is written on that piece of paper is irrelevant, because good-bye has already come and gone.
    "**** it," he whispered under his breath.
    He gets up off the floor and reaches his hand into his duffle bag and pulls out a pocket knife. He carefully starts to slice open the top of the envelope, taking care to not disturb the area where her saliva sealed it. That is the one and only thing he has now that he can and will preserve. His chest pounds as he slides his fingers in and grips the thin slip of paper.
    "Christian! What the hell!" Christian startles up and quickly drops the envelope before getting a chance to pull the paper out, but still clutches tightly on to the pocket knife. He looks at his mother with disgust. He pushes the envelope with his foot behind a box, hoping to conceal it.
    Diane pushes a stack of boxes to the side, easing her way into his room. "You haven't even touched one single thing in here, what have you been doing?"
    "I have been doing whatever I'm doing."
    "What is that supposed to mean?" Diane walks towards him, noticeably trying to peer around the box where Christian was hiding his letter. "Chrissy what is in that envelope?"
    Christian puts his head down, refusing to make eye contact.
    Diane's irritable excitement quickly calms. "Christian baby, is that from her?"
    "It's none of your business, can you just please leave me alone."
    "This is a fresh start Chrissy, let's try to keep looking forward and..."
    Christian cuts Diane off and says, "Chrissy is a girl’s name, please don't call me that anymore."
    Diane sighs, disappointment and sadness assumes the former sternness and concern on her face. "Look, you need to start leaving the past behind you. You need to let those things go, including her."
    "I know Mom, she's gone, permanently, I get it. I wish you would do the same thing sometimes and can you please not smoke that in my room?"
    Diane's eyes become instantly flooded with tears of which she fights to hold back. She takes the cigarette in her right hand and butts it in the ashtray she was holding in her left. She wipes her eyes quickly and turns to walk away; as she does she quickly turns back.
    Before she can say another word Christian continues. “What? Don’t look at me like that and get all emotional and ****, what do you expect?”
    "You know you aren't the only one that hurts Christian. I am trying really hard here, what have I done so wrong?"
    Christian's silence and avoidance of this confrontation is broken by anger and aggression.
    "What have you done wrong? Good question Mom. What HAVEN’T you done wrong?“
    "I've done all of this for you!" Diane said.
    "All of what? Running here? It's kind of fitting you ask what you've done, because you’ve never done anything for me, that's the problem!"
    "That’s not true Chrissy!"
    Christian continues, "You think running here, things are going to be different?"
    "Chrissy, you haven't even been here for a day yet!"
    "Things will never be different! **** happens, over and over and over! And don’t lie to me and tell me you care, you've only ever showed you don't.“
    "Chrissy, how can you say that?"
    “Don’t think these so called changes you’ve supposedly made, makes you a good Mother, it doesn’t.“
    Diane steps out of the room and Christian quickly slams the door behind her. He turns and leans his back against the door and slides down to the floor and puts his head on his arms that are draped over his knees. He looks up and like his mother, tears fill his eyes. He isn't even sure why anymore. He knows for sure it isn't because he was feeling remorse from what he said. He couldn't give two ****s about her feelings. He glares at the half open envelope on the floor. He leans forward and reaches out and grasps onto it once again. He proceeds to get up and heads to his bed, which isn’t made. It is only a bare mattress and a pillow. He lies down with a flashlight and leans over and takes a pack of cigarettes and matches out from in between the bedspring and the mattress. He lights up his cigarette, despite telling his mother to put hers out and slips the paper out of the envelope. After a deep drag, he unfolds the paper.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Gilfindel's Avatar
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    Word of advice: put an extra line between your paragraphs on these posts to break up the "Great Wall of text". It's a lot easier to read and critique that way. Keep things in bite-sized chunks as well.

    That aside, I'm not a fan of present-tense fiction. Why not past tense, like 99.99% of all writing?

  7. #7
    Rogue Mutt
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilfindel View Post
    Word of advice: put an extra line between your paragraphs on these posts to break up the "Great Wall of text". It's a lot easier to read and critique that way. Keep things in bite-sized chunks as well.

    That aside, I'm not a fan of present-tense fiction. Why not past tense, like 99.99% of all writing?
    More like 75% at this point and rapidly dropping.

  8. #8
    Rogue Mutt
    Guest
    I fixed your formatting and made notes in red. You've got a problem with run-on sentences. And if you're going to use present tense, you've got to stay in present tense and not switch to past for no reason. I have that same problem when I've been writing one tense for a while and then switch to another.

    Is Black Pillar Island the escape that is going to be the cure all for everything? Christian just can't help but think that a quick fix like this is a far cry from being the end all resolution to years of poison. He thinks life itself and everything that surrounds his life is poison. Well everything but one thing, he at least knows that for sure, even if that one thing has come and gone. If everything around him except for that one thing was poison back home, he concludes everything he will touch wherever he goes will have the same result. He finds it almost comical that his Mother thinks a smaller place to live, in a smaller town, while she works another dead end job, is going to make things different. Can things be different? It is such a frustrating question when the answer always remains the same. Ok, maybe it's not so comical after all.

    He lays [lies] sprawled on the floor amongst scattered, unpacked boxes and bags all in disarray. This cluttered small space is now his room. All his thoughts flow through his head like a raging river flowing towards a waterfall, which eventually just falls and falls into a misty pool of nothingness. Some supposedly find this beautiful, [;] Christian finds it empty. But yet he remains lost in deep thoughts swarming in his head as he stares up at the yellow cigarette stained ceiling.

    “What am I doing here?” He thought.

    His Mother asked him at least three times to put everything away, but he doesn't even know where to start. He doesn't want to start. His self-justified defiance makes him question, why in the hell should he? This wasn't his choice. That bitch should do it if she wants it done. It's the least she can do.

    His hand protects an unopened envelope pressed firmly against his chest, as if he were guarding a priceless treasure that the death of him is the only way it could be pried away from his fingers. He holds it up in the air towards the bedroom light. He is hesitant to open it. He knows everything that has ever been good and that he has cared about is tucked neatly inside this little package. He fears that by reading what it says, that the one positive thing he once had will come crumbling down like everything else in the first fifteen years of his life. If it remains untouched, nothing bad can come from it right? Ignorance to reality can never disappoint a person, he thought. But he knew he had to open it.

    Really though, what did [does] it matter anyway? Whatever he is going to face and confront by opening this envelope isn't going to change anything. It is already a loss with no sense of closure. Whatever is written on that piece of paper is irrelevant, because good-bye has already come and gone.

    "**** it," he whispered [whispers] under his breath.

    He gets up off the floor and reaches his hand into his duffel bag and pulls out a pocket knife. He carefully starts to slice open the top of the envelope, taking care to not disturb the area where her saliva sealed it. That is the one and only thing he has now that he can and will preserve. His chest pounds as he slides his fingers in and grips the thin slip of paper.

    "Christian! What the hell!" Christian startles up and quickly drops the envelope before getting a chance to pull the paper out, but still clutches tightly on to the pocket knife. He looks at his mother with disgust. He pushes the envelope with his foot behind a box, hoping to conceal it.

    Diane pushes a stack of boxes to the side, easing her way into his room. "You haven't even [delete even] touched one single thing in here, what have you been doing?"

    "I have [I've] been doing whatever I'm doing."

    "What is that supposed to mean?" Diane walks towards him, noticeably trying to peer around the box where Christian was hiding his letter. "Chrissy what is in that envelope?"

    Christian puts his head down, refusing to make eye contact.

    Diane's irritable excitement quickly calms. "Christian baby, is that from her?"

    "It's none of your business, can you just please leave me alone."

    "This is a fresh start Chrissy, let's try to keep looking forward and..."

    Christian cuts Diane off and says, "Chrissy is a girl’s name, [.] please don't call me that anymore."

    Diane sighs, [;] disappointment and sadness assumes the former sternness and concern on her face. "Look, you need to start leaving the past behind you. You need to let those things go, including her."

    "I know Mom, she's gone, permanently,[.] I get it. I wish you would do the same thing sometimes [.] and can you please not smoke that in my room?"

    Diane's eyes become instantly flooded with tears of which she fights to hold back. She takes the cigarette in her right hand and butts it in the ashtray she was holding in her left. She wipes her eyes quickly and turns to walk away; as she does she quickly turns back.

    Before she can say another word Christian continues. “What? Don’t look at me like that and get all emotional and ****, what do you expect?”

    "You know you aren't the only one that hurts Christian. I am trying really hard here, what have I done so wrong?"

    Christian's silence and avoidance of this confrontation is broken by anger and aggression. [delete this whole sentence; let the words speak for themselves]

    "What have you done wrong? Good question Mom. What HAVEN’T you done wrong?“

    "I've done all of this for you!" Diane said. [says]

    "All of what? Running here? It's kind of fitting you ask what you've done, because you’ve never done anything for me, that's the problem!"

    "That’s not true Chrissy!"

    Christian continues, "You think running here, things are going to be different?"

    "Chrissy, you haven't even been here for a day yet!"

    "Things will never be different! **** happens, over and over and over! And don’t lie to me and tell me you care, you've only ever showed you don't.“

    "Chrissy, how can you say that?"

    “Don’t think these so called changes you’ve supposedly made, makes you a good Mother, it doesn’t.“

    Diane steps out of the room and Christian quickly slams the door behind her. He turns and leans his back against the door and slides down to the floor and puts his head on his arms that are draped over his knees. [break that sentence up; too many ands] He looks up and like his mother, tears fill his eyes. He isn't even sure why anymore. He knows for sure it isn't because he was feeling remorse from what he said. He couldn't give two ****s about her feelings. He glares at the half open envelope on the floor. He leans forward and reaches out and grasps onto it once again. He proceeds to get up and heads to his bed, which isn’t made. It is only a bare mattress and a pillow. He lies down with a flashlight and leans over and takes a pack of cigarettes and matches out from in between the bedspring and the mattress. He lights up his cigarette, despite telling his mother to put hers out and slips the paper out of the envelope. After a deep drag, he unfolds the paper.
    Last edited by Rogue Mutt; 04-03-2015 at 06:11 AM.

  9. #9
    DaBlaRR
    Guest
    Gil - Thanks, I will make sure I break it up better next time.

    Rogue Mutt - Wow, thanks for taking the time to do that. Very much appreciated. You know I didn't even realize I was switching between past and present. I guess I can only boil that down to being completely inexperienced. What is your opinion on present vs. past tense. Are you with Gil on that one? Besides all the technical errors, is it okay as far as the opening of the story goes?

  10. #10
    Rogue Mutt
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBlaRR View Post
    Gil - Thanks, I will make sure I break it up better next time.

    Rogue Mutt - Wow, thanks for taking the time to do that. Very much appreciated. You know I didn't even realize I was switching between past and present. I guess I can only boil that down to being completely inexperienced. What is your opinion on present vs. past tense. Are you with Gil on that one? Besides all the technical errors, is it okay as far as the opening of the story goes?
    I've used present tense most of the time the last 4 years. It has become increasingly popular, especially in the YA crowd. I think overall you need more experience. Do a lot of reading too. Since you asked about it initially, I didn't see any problems with the POV.

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