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  1. #41
    Rogue Mutt
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    Yeah well this fake account has been here over ten years, bro.



  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Mutt View Post
    Says the guy who hasn't sold a book all year and has written plenty himself. For someone who talks so much about learning you aren't very good at it.
    Aside from the fact that like Trump you make up your facts to fit your goal, it's not about me, child, because the advice I give comes from the pros. You, on the other hand insist you know more than every teacher of writing on the planet, and based on your credentials and sales, clearly don't.

  3. #43
    Rogue Mutt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greenstein View Post
    Aside from the fact that like Trump you make up your facts to fit your goal, it's not about me, child, because the advice I give comes from the pros. You, on the other hand insist you know more than every teacher of writing on the planet, and based on your credentials and sales, clearly don't.
    I've never said I know more than any teachers. I just like to think for myself instead of regurgitating the words of others. Let's face it, what you do could be programmed by a 10-year-old into an app that picks writing quotes and posts them. That's why I never understand your smugness about it. You're a drone who spits out the words of others and all that knowledge hasn't done you a bit of good. And yet for some reason you think that makes you smart. Talk about self-delusion.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Mutt View Post
    I've never said I know more than any teachers.
    I believe the proper, technical term for that is horse****. You "passed Judgement on Amazon. His book has 157 five star reviews and 33 four star. There are precisely three three star reviews. One of them decided not to buy and one said they couldn't get into it.. But you, someone who can't interest a publisher in your writing, said, "If you have been writing a while then most of this you'll already know."

    So you believe that you already know everything he had to say. But strangely, use none of it in your writing. So obviously, you believe your techniques superior to what's taught to the people who take four year majors in commercial fiction writing.. Yet strangely, your methods don't work, even for you.
    I just like to think for myself instead of regurgitating the words of others.
    Ahhh... So you read the words of others, then ignore them, and see that as a virtue we should all emulate. But if it was, you wouldn't have to self publish your work. Publishers would pay you lots of money for the privilege of bringing it to every bookstore in the country.

    I'm sorry, but you cannot defend being unable to learn the basics of the profession as the trait of a trailblazer who marches to a different beat...not unless it works.

  5. #45
    Rogue Mutt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greenstein View Post
    I believe the proper, technical term for that is horse****. You "passed Judgement on Amazon. His book has 157 five star reviews and 33 four star. There are precisely three three star reviews. One of them decided not to buy and one said they couldn't get into it.. But you, someone who can't interest a publisher in your writing, said, "If you have been writing a while then most of this you'll already know."
    Wow, two responses in one day. Must have eaten your prunes today.

    You forgot the one 2-star reviewer who basically said the same thing:
    I was very disappointed with this. It's a book that's full of commonsense tips stuffed with unnecessary explanation. I will agree that some of the information in the book is timeless, but it's nothing that can't be found online. What little useful information is available would be more appropriate in the form of a 100-tips blog post.
    Which actually was nastier than what I said but then I recognized that Swain had been dead about 15 years before blogs were a thing. But neither of us says that we know more than teachers if you actually read the words. I didn't say I KNOW MORE THAN DWIGHT SWAIN! I AM THE GREATEST! SUCK IT, LOSERS! I said, as did the other reviewer, that there's a lot of it that's already known. And there's other parts of it that are seriously outdated since it was written in 1965. The pulps where Swain was mostly published have long since stopped existing; I think they were gone by the time I was born. "Paperbacks" of the type he mentions also do not really exist anymore. Even most of the books he references are out of print.

    As far as the number of positive reviews go there's that old thing parents say: If everyone jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge [or the high place of your choosing], would you? Writers like James Patterson, Nora Roberts, and Nicholas Sparks are popular and get plenty of good reviews but do I automatically then have to think their books are great? If so I might have to give up reading forever.

    Ahhh... So you read the words of others, then ignore them, and see that as a virtue we should all emulate. But if it was, you wouldn't have to self publish your work. Publishers would pay you lots of money for the privilege of bringing it to every bookstore in the country.
    You keep saying I'm not really published, I have to self-publish, blah blah blah without seeming to realize that YOU cannot interest a publisher. YOU self-publish. And you don't sell diddly-squat. So if the #1 disciple of Dwight Swain can't get published, has to self-publish, and can't sell those self-published books, why do I want to follow Dwight Swain? I guess the logic is: it hasn't worked for me, but it worked for some other people. It's as convincing as a drunk touting the benefits of Alcoholics Anonymous. I bet my nieces (5 and almost 4) could grasp the logical paradox before you could because we've been over this time and time and time again and it still doesn't seem to be sinking in.

    I'm sorry, but you cannot defend being unable to learn the basics of the profession as the trait of a trailblazer who marches to a different beat...not unless it works.
    You'll have to refresh my memory on when I declared myself a trailblazer. At anything. Ever. I simply reject your silly notion that there's only one way to go about writing because there have been so many different people who have found success through different means. And certainly the greats like Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Faulkner, Steinbeck, etc. didn't need some failed pulp writer to tell them how to write. I'm sure you'd interpret that as me saying I'm as good or better than those guys, but I'm not. As I said in this thread, I don't say I'm a successful writer, just more successful than YOU.

    Saying everyone has to write via one system is idiotic. There is no one system to writing. There's basic grammar but everything beyond that is a matter of opinion; and let's be honest, even some of basic grammar people don't agree on.

    Honestly, the next time you're about to tell someone to use the Swain system, look in the mirror and ask yourself: If Dwight Swain is the one true path, then why am I a failure and so many other writers successful? It seems pretty obvious.
    Last edited by Rogue Mutt; 05-20-2016 at 02:42 PM.

  6. #46
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    You forgot the one 2-star reviewer who basically said the same thing:
    Golly...one out of nearly 200 reviews, and you think that's significant.
    You keep saying I'm not really published, I have to self-publish, blah blah blah without seeming to realize that YOU cannot interest a publisher.
    Sorry, I'm not the one claiming I know more than the teachers, you are. I've never even said I write well, or have writing talent. You're the one bragging about selling less than one book per day per title.
    You'll have to refresh my memory on when I declared myself a trailblazer.
    When you claimed to know more about writing than do the honored professors and respected writers and publishers. Unfortunately, trailblazing is about expanding knowledge, not reinventing the wheel. So you've failed at that, too.
    Saying everyone has to write via one system is idiotic.
    Only if you have a system that works. Every day people are selected by publishers—more than 10,000 per year—who use the writing techniques readers and publishers favor. You reject them, and have no books in the bookstore. Yet you consider yourself superior to those writers, those publishers, and those teachers, in spite of overwhelming evidence that you're wrong—including having not one person in these forums say that they like, and emulate your writing style.

    In reality, it's not about liking or disliking the profession's techniques. It's that you've used your existing skills to write novel after novel, hardening those habits into concrete and emotionally investing you in them. So you can't look at the field objectively any more than can most people look at religion objectively. Facts are the enemy of both, because if accepted, it involves admitting a mistake so pervasive it invalidates a way of life.

    I'm sorry you had to end up in that situation because it puts you in a difficult situation, where you've had to shut down external input, and distort reality to fit preconception. I'd rather not be locked into a crucible with you, but you're the one who built and are fueling the fire under it.

  7. #47
    Rogue Mutt
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    Apparently you're going with the idea that if you say something enough times it will become true.

    Sorry, I'm not the one claiming I know more than the teachers, you are.
    Nope. Never said that.

    When you claimed to know more about writing than do the honored professors and respected writers and publishers.
    Nope. Didn't say that either.

    Yet you consider yourself superior to those writers, those publishers, and those teachers, in spite of overwhelming evidence that you're wrong—including having not one person in these forums say that they like, and emulate your writing style.
    I have to wonder: if you consider a negative book review to mean I think I'm superior to writers and professors, does that mean when I review a towel or toy for my nieces and give it a bad review it means I think I'm superior to a towel or Barbie doll? Suck it, Barbie, I'm better than you!!!

    I'm sorry, when did I ever tell anyone to write like me?

    Here's what I said in this thread:
    Not that there's much here to go on except that you're really trying to cram in some big words like "flexuous."
    Here's what jayce said:
    That said, your prose style is extraordinarily verbose, with one thought bumping into another and then another, sometimes murkily so.
    And Oberon completely rewrote it. I'm not sure how you get that I'm telling people to emulate my style. That's your thing, buster.

    I'm sorry you had to end up in that situation because it puts you in a difficult situation, where you've had to shut down external input, and distort reality to fit preconception.
    You mean the situation where I sell a lot more books than you? In psychology they call this "projection." You're taking your failures and insecurities and projecting them on to me. You're the one who lives in a fantasy world where there's a set of standard techniques that only followers of Dwight Swain use to achieve writing success. (And yet that these techniques never work for you, the biggest devotee of Swain, never seems to enter your mind.) Denial is not just a river in Egypt; it's where you've decided to make your home.
    Last edited by Rogue Mutt; 05-21-2016 at 09:53 AM.

  8. #48
    Rogue Mutt
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    Here's what I said in this thread:
    Not that there's much here to go on except that you're really trying to cram in some big words like "flexuous."
    By the way I saw this article this morning on George Orwell's six rules for clear prose, number two of which is:
    (ii) Never use a long word where a short one will do.
    Which is what jayce and I said, albeit worded differently.

    And rules 3 and 4 are:
    (iii) If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.

    (iv) Never use the passive where you can use the active.
    Which is pretty much what Oberon always says.

    Very interesting...

  9. #49
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    Good link. Thanks.

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