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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Oberon View Post
    Simon,

    It's not a matter of Christ agreeing with me; it's me agreeing with Him. He thought we were so bad that we needed a Savior to save us from our sins, and He volunteered. He died for our sins. Before I met Christ, I thought people, especially me, were basically good. Christ stands in direct opposition to that lie, and proved the truth with His death. If we were not sinful, He would not have needed to die.

    But OK...death and sickness is good. War and murder and torture are good. Theft and lying and immorality are good. We are basically good people.

    Christ begs to differ and died for the opposite view.
    He thought people were bad because we weren't good enough to each other. Because we weren't focused on the poor and the hungry. Because we focused on material things. Not because some fell in love with the same sex.

    Death and sickness are not people. Torture, murder, theft, etc. are bad things that people do. It does not mean that people are inherently bad. Most of us don't murder or torture or steal, no matter what circumstances we're in. Most of us lie, but while lying may not be a good thing to do, it's not anywhere near as bad as murder, torture etc. As for immorality, that is an individual and personal judgement call. What you find immoral I may not. I find many of your positions to be the absolute antithesis of my idea of morality. You judge others in the name of Christ. You label things as sins that he did not.

    The bible may have labeled homosexuality as an abomination, but it also labels the following as abominations: Women wearing men's clothes, a proud look, eating shellfish or pork, lying with a woman who has her period, to name just a few. Either the word abomination did not have the same meaning at the time that it has now or eating a shrimp cocktail should be considered as big a sin against god as you consider homosexuality to be. As an abomination is an abomination is an abomination.

    Per the bible a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night should be stoned to death. As should disobedient children. And those who break the Sabbath.

    Being a homosexual is no worse than eating a hot dog in the eyes of God. And for the record, I do believe in God.



  2. #62
    Senior Member John Oberon's Avatar
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    This was longer but just as feeble as your last post. Just give it up already. Yeesh all this hair-splitting and trying to create new definitions. It's sad really.

    Nah, it wasn't that long. I just included your post in it as well. Wasn't trying to create any new definitions, just correct ones. I think being correct is kind of a happy thing, at least I like it whenever I can do it.

    "Sex sells" means the notion of sex gets someone to buy the product. After that it depends on the quality of the product whether someone will buy it again or not.

    I know that's the commonly accepted meaning. I'm saying that it is false. Sex only gets someone to look at the product, not buy it. Agree with your second statement though.

    Instead of you trying to define pornography let's just ask Mr. Dictionary.com, shall we:

    por·nog·ra·phy
    [pawr-nog-ruh-fee]
    noun: obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, especially those having little or no artistic merit.

    You lose.


    I know the word "pornography" can include all those things, but people do not think of writing when they hear that word. They think of videos or pictures, dare I say it, universally. Pornography applied to writing is more an academic or legal term, and well, old school, Mutt. Get with the times!

    Exactly how do I lose by you giving me a technically correct (if vague) definition of pornography. I'm the one who likes correctness, remember? I think it's great you want to be correct too.

    Oral sex (aka blow jobs) has become popular among younger people as a way to get sexual gratification without the fear of sexually transmitted diseases like HIV. I'm sure we can thank Bill Clinton as well for its increased popularity, lol. Wait, you probably never heard about Monica Lewinsky in your spider hole.

    I don't really know what relevance this has to anything, but OK. And it's hard to miss when a man makes a global laughingstock of himself.

    I swear someone waking up from a 20-year coma would be more knowledgeable about the world today than you. I don't know how you manage to even work these newfangled thinking machines.

    Now, Muttikins, your solicitude about the level of my world knowledge is admirable, but let me put your mind at ease. I own plenty of knowledge that's worth knowing. And you have knowledge that's...well, it's knowledge, I guess. Actually, we might call what you think is really important to know "nolidge", but don't text while driving, lol.
    Last edited by John Oberon; 07-12-2013 at 10:31 AM.

  3. #63
    Rogue Mutt
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    Wow you're dense. As if I didn't already know that. SMH.

    A literary example of how sex sells is all those cheesy romance books with hot guys like Fabio on the cover. You think women are buying those for the quality of the words? Get real.

    "but people do not think of writing when they hear that word'

    You're pretty much the last person on Earth who gets to make generalizations about people, given how out of touch you are. YOU think that and therefore you assume everyone else must think that way, which is really your problem in general--if YOU believe something it must be true, despite all evidence to the contrary.

    I was talking about the popularity of oral sex because of your blather "he had intercourse with them, meaning he stuck his penis in their vaginas...you know, putting another notch on the gun. The author was unable to do that, so he pleased his women in a different way to cover his inadequacy. "

    It's not necessarily a way to cover his inadequacy anymore for the reasons I described. Try to keep up.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Oberon View Post
    This was longer but just as feeble as your last post. Just give it up already. Yeesh all this hair-splitting and trying to create new definitions. It's sad really.

    Nah, it wasn't that long. I just included your post in it as well. Wasn't trying to create any new definitions, just correct ones. I think being correct is kind of a happy thing, at least I like it whenever I can do it.

    "Sex sells" means the notion of sex gets someone to buy the product. After that it depends on the quality of the product whether someone will buy it again or not.

    I know that's the commonly accepted meaning. I'm saying that it is false. Sex only gets someone to look at the product, not buy it. Agree with your second statement though.

    Instead of you trying to define pornography let's just ask Mr. Dictionary.com, shall we:

    por·nog·ra·phy
    [pawr-nog-ruh-fee]
    noun: obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, especially those having little or no artistic merit.

    You lose.


    I know the word "pornography" can include all those things, but people do not think of writing when they hear that word. They think of videos or pictures, dare I say it, universally. Pornography applied to writing is more an academic or legal term, and well, old school, Mutt. Get with the times!

    Exactly how do I lose by you giving me a technically correct (if vague) definition of pornography. I'm the one who likes correctness, remember? I think it's great you want to be correct too.

    Oral sex (aka blow jobs) has become popular among younger people as a way to get sexual gratification without the fear of sexually transmitted diseases like HIV. I'm sure we can thank Bill Clinton as well for its increased popularity, lol. Wait, you probably never heard about Monica Lewinsky in your spider hole.

    I don't really know what relevance this has to anything, but OK. And it's hard to miss when a man makes a global laughingstock of himself.

    I swear someone waking up from a 20-year coma would be more knowledgeable about the world today than you. I don't know how you manage to even work these newfangled thinking machines.

    Now, Muttikins, your solicitude about the level of my world knowledge is admirable, but let me put your mind at ease. I own plenty of knowledge that's worth knowing. And you have knowledge that's...well, it's knowledge, I guess. Actually, we might call what you think is really important to know "nolidge", but don't text while driving, lol.

  4. #64
    Senior Member John Oberon's Avatar
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    He thought people were bad because we weren't good enough to each other. Because we weren't focused on the poor and the hungry. Because we focused on material things. Not because some fell in love with the same sex.

    Is it possible that you don’t know that Jesus was a Jew? He subscribed to ALL the law and prophecy of the Old Testament…including the laws prohibiting homosexuality. In fact, he went even further. He said just thinking about breaking the laws was equivalent to breaking them in your heart. If you just think about committing adultery, then you’ve already committed it in your heart. Pretty high standard, ey? Can you live up to that standard? I know I can’t.

    Death and sickness are not people. Torture, murder, theft, etc. are bad things that people do. It does not mean that people are inherently bad. Most of us don't murder or torture or steal, no matter what circumstances we're in. Most of us lie, but while lying may not be a good thing to do, it's not anywhere near as bad as murder, torture etc. As for immorality, that is an individual and personal judgement call. What you find immoral I may not. I find many of your positions to be the absolute antithesis of my idea of morality. You judge others in the name of Christ. You label things as sins that he did not.

    So…morality is relative. What you think moral is not what I think is moral and vice versa. Would it surprise you to know I agree that this is an accurate description of how pretty much the whole world views morality? I think it’s precisely how we get people like Stalin and Hitler. To say they least, they had a different morality, and what you and I would probably find immoral, they did not, and it was their individual and personal judgment call.

    Christ came in direct opposition to that viewpoint. In direct opposition to the world’s opinion, He said, “I am the way. I am the truth. I am the life.” Sounds kind of absolute, don’t you think? What do you think of a Man Who says He’s the truth, the living embodiment of truth, that essentially, He is the ruler by which you measure all other truth? I’ll tell you what I would think, in fact, what I did think…He’s NUTS! But the more I read His words, the more I found Him the most sane, clear, and moral thinker I ever read. So He’s not nuts or delusional…is He some kind of criminal? A liar? Out to con as many people as possible? No. That goes directly against all that He teaches. And He wasn’t after money, because He was poor. What then? What’s left? Just this: He was telling the truth. He really is God. There is no other truth aside from His truth. Nothing is moral except what He declares moral. And yep, He, in unity with His Father, declared homosexuality a sin worthy of death. But homosexuals ought not to feel singled out; He also declared fornication (sex outside marriage) a sin worthy of death. We’re all in the same boat – utterly evil and utterly unable to keep His law. We need a Savior to save us from the deserved wrath from a righteous and just God. Jesus volunteered to take the wrath on Himself to protect us. All we have to do is accept that sacrifice and believe in its efficacy, and live a life in gratitude and servitude to Him.

    The bible may have labeled homosexuality as an abomination, but it also labels the following as abominations: Women wearing men's clothes, a proud look, eating shellfish or pork, lying with a woman who has her period, to name just a few. Either the word abomination did not have the same meaning at the time that it has now or eating a shrimp cocktail should be considered as big a sin against god as you consider homosexuality to be. As an abomination is an abomination is an abomination.

    Well, you might well notice that there is no death sentence attached to those specific items you mention, but there is with homosexuality. Actually, there are two Hebrew words translated as “abomination” in the Old Testament. One means exactly what you would expect – loathsome, detestable. The other means something akin to “taboo”. The first is used with sexual laws like homosexuality. The second is used with dietary and other laws that are less egregious to break. This is what I learned from different Hebrew scholars.

    Per the bible a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night should be stoned to death. As should disobedient children. And those who break the Sabbath.

    Yes…so? If she is not a virgin, and was supposed to be, then she broke the fornication law and earned death. I would point out that by “disobedient children” the original language points to a disobedience that is habitual and particularly insolent and implacable. Otherwise, so? God takes these things pretty seriously, wouldn’t you say? I think the best question to ask is “Why?” Once you seriously consider that question, you start to understand Him.

    Being a homosexual is no worse than eating a hot dog in the eyes of God. And for the record, I do believe in God.

    No worse except for homosexuality earned you death and a hot dog would’ve earned you a few days uncleanness ritual. Except for that, yeah, exactly the same, lol. Thank the Lord we no longer need live under any of those laws, but by the grace of God through Christ.

    Good to know you believe in God. Jesus said Satan believes in God too, and trembles. The difference between mere belief and faith is submission and obedience to Christ.

  5. #65
    Rogue Mutt
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    Guess you guys forgot the part where the moderator said religious discussion is not kosher.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Oberon View Post
    He thought people were bad because we weren't good enough to each other. Because we weren't focused on the poor and the hungry. Because we focused on material things. Not because some fell in love with the same sex.

    Is it possible that you don’t know that Jesus was a Jew? He subscribed to ALL the law and prophecy of the Old Testament…including the laws prohibiting homosexuality. In fact, he went even further. He said just thinking about breaking the laws was equivalent to breaking them in your heart. If you just think about committing adultery, then you’ve already committed it in your heart. Pretty high standard, ey? Can you live up to that standard? I know I can’t.

    Death and sickness are not people. Torture, murder, theft, etc. are bad things that people do. It does not mean that people are inherently bad. Most of us don't murder or torture or steal, no matter what circumstances we're in. Most of us lie, but while lying may not be a good thing to do, it's not anywhere near as bad as murder, torture etc. As for immorality, that is an individual and personal judgement call. What you find immoral I may not. I find many of your positions to be the absolute antithesis of my idea of morality. You judge others in the name of Christ. You label things as sins that he did not.

    So…morality is relative. What you think moral is not what I think is moral and vice versa. Would it surprise you to know I agree that this is an accurate description of how pretty much the whole world views morality? I think it’s precisely how we get people like Stalin and Hitler. To say they least, they had a different morality, and what you and I would probably find immoral, they did not, and it was their individual and personal judgment call.

    Christ came in direct opposition to that viewpoint. In direct opposition to the world’s opinion, He said, “I am the way. I am the truth. I am the life.” Sounds kind of absolute, don’t you think? What do you think of a Man Who says He’s the truth, the living embodiment of truth, that essentially, He is the ruler by which you measure all other truth? I’ll tell you what I would think, in fact, what I did think…He’s NUTS! But the more I read His words, the more I found Him the most sane, clear, and moral thinker I ever read. So He’s not nuts or delusional…is He some kind of criminal? A liar? Out to con as many people as possible? No. That goes directly against all that He teaches. And He wasn’t after money, because He was poor. What then? What’s left? Just this: He was telling the truth. He really is God. There is no other truth aside from His truth. Nothing is moral except what He declares moral. And yep, He, in unity with His Father, declared homosexuality a sin worthy of death. But homosexuals ought not to feel singled out; He also declared fornication (sex outside marriage) a sin worthy of death. We’re all in the same boat – utterly evil and utterly unable to keep His law. We need a Savior to save us from the deserved wrath from a righteous and just God. Jesus volunteered to take the wrath on Himself to protect us. All we have to do is accept that sacrifice and believe in its efficacy, and live a life in gratitude and servitude to Him.

    The bible may have labeled homosexuality as an abomination, but it also labels the following as abominations: Women wearing men's clothes, a proud look, eating shellfish or pork, lying with a woman who has her period, to name just a few. Either the word abomination did not have the same meaning at the time that it has now or eating a shrimp cocktail should be considered as big a sin against god as you consider homosexuality to be. As an abomination is an abomination is an abomination.

    Well, you might well notice that there is no death sentence attached to those specific items you mention, but there is with homosexuality. Actually, there are two Hebrew words translated as “abomination” in the Old Testament. One means exactly what you would expect – loathsome, detestable. The other means something akin to “taboo”. The first is used with sexual laws like homosexuality. The second is used with dietary and other laws that are less egregious to break. This is what I learned from different Hebrew scholars.

    Per the bible a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night should be stoned to death. As should disobedient children. And those who break the Sabbath.

    Yes…so? If she is not a virgin, and was supposed to be, then she broke the fornication law and earned death. I would point out that by “disobedient children” the original language points to a disobedience that is habitual and particularly insolent and implacable. Otherwise, so? God takes these things pretty seriously, wouldn’t you say? I think the best question to ask is “Why?” Once you seriously consider that question, you start to understand Him.

    Being a homosexual is no worse than eating a hot dog in the eyes of God. And for the record, I do believe in God.

    No worse except for homosexuality earned you death and a hot dog would’ve earned you a few days uncleanness ritual. Except for that, yeah, exactly the same, lol. Thank the Lord we no longer need live under any of those laws, but by the grace of God through Christ.

    Good to know you believe in God. Jesus said Satan believes in God too, and trembles. The difference between mere belief and faith is submission and obedience to Christ.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Mutt View Post
    Guess you guys forgot the part where the moderator said religious discussion is not kosher.
    Perhaps if they gave us back Smoko there's be a place for off topic discussions again.

  7. #67
    Senior Member John Oberon's Avatar
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    Wow you're dense. As if I didn't already know that. SMH.

    So hot and bothered, Muttikins, lol. I'm tellin' ya...pizza.

    A literary example of how sex sells is all those cheesy romance books with hot guys like Fabio on the cover. You think women are buying those for the quality of the words? Get real.

    Yeah...cheesy ROMANCE books, not cheesy sex books. Those books don't sell sex, they sell desire, smolder. Plus, I already said that if a person's body and appearance were strongly linked with the product, then I would somewhat agree with you. I would include romance books as a product in that category. And I already discussed the differences between men and women in regard to graphic written sex. I guess you don't read my responses, do you? Ah, well...

    "but people do not think of writing when they hear that word'

    You're pretty much the last person on Earth who gets to make generalizations about people, given how out of touch you are. YOU think that and therefore you assume everyone else must think that way, which is really your problem in general--if YOU believe something it must be true, despite all evidence to the contrary.


    Alrighty...the next time you hear someone say, "I was looking at porn", you can assume they were reading a book, and I'll assume they were looking at some kind of pictures. I'm sure there will be no misunderstanding, lol.

    I was talking about the popularity of oral sex because of your blather "he had intercourse with them, meaning he stuck his penis in their vaginas...you know, putting another notch on the gun. The author was unable to do that, so he pleased his women in a different way to cover his inadequacy. "

    It's not necessarily a way to cover his inadequacy anymore for the reasons I described. Try to keep up.


    Gee, when he wrote “Well, when you can´t really seem to get it up, then you learn to get by and hide it by focusing elsewhere”, I thought that explained the situation pretty clearly, but I guess if YOU believe something it must be true, lol.

  8. #68
    Rogue Mutt
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    Why is it the whole weekend goes by with nothing and then you have to try to reignite things on Monday morning? Just give it up already. Yeesh.

  9. #69
    Administrator Wickett's Avatar
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    Just going in circles now. Good game though guys.

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