Is this better? MG, vampire alert

[leslee]

For a start, all of the Nero Wolfe novels by Rex Stout are narrated in first person by Wolfe's assistant, Archie Goodwin

It's great to see someone refer to Rex Stout and the Nero Wolfe books. I've read every one of them. I went through a period where I could not leave the house without a Nero Wolfe book in my hand. Incredible writer, and the most vivid characters.

Thanks, Joe, for a happy memory.

[Joe Zeff]

If so, Leslee, you'll know why I cringe every time I see somebody use "contact" as a verb.

[C K]

Avonne,

Think I was wrong, but only a bit. Much of what you have is in L's POV, but it's a distant POV and it wobbles. These things are on a continuum, and I had my head quite firmly in a very tight POV while writing last night. Sorry to be even more confusing.

[Avonne Writer]

C K, That's okay--I know how it is. I stay up til 2-3am every night and my thoughts get the better of me sometimes, too. What you had to offer was terrific advise though.

And, Joe, as, far as the first person POV writing. I do know that many authors are successful writing in this POV. I have only heard from other writers that it is difficult to master as a beginner. Like I said before, I tried with my first novel which was not successful (yet?) but that could have been my crappy writing, lol. I have also read many books in 1st person, and yes it is interesting and successful, and they are some of my favorites.

[Avonne Writer]

C W - you were right to begin with. I did a little research on POV. Here is a terrific link (If i copied correctly) which does a great job of explaining. And explains why in mystery novels and such you definitely want to go 1st person POV, so you're up close and personal. Whereas, Literary Fiction is usually 3rd person. Check it out...very informative

http://www.suite101.com/content/points-of-view-a24900

[C K]

Avonne, while that's nice to consider that I wasn't wrong. It's not true. I think we're getting a little tangled with person and point of view.

You've just got three choices in person: first, second, third.

Within any of those persons, are a range of points of view, although most POV focus is within third person because first is far more limiting regarding point of view. (Probably why folks disagree about whether first person is harder or easier. It's easier in that the writer doesn't have to master several characters' way of seeing the world. Harder if the plot is difficult to present from only one character's knowledge/experience.) Within third person, you can everything from an eye-in-the-sky narrator pointing the reader to what it wants observed, to a limited POV, pointing the reader to only what one character can observe, even becoming so tight the reader experiences events, thoughts, feelings from inside that character much like the feel of first person, but in third. I don't think of POVs as separate categories so much as lines along which the writer can move. But if you're going to move your reader around on those lines, you've got to have a feel for how moving feels to the reader, how it will translate. If you don't, you'll end up with the reader not trusting you. The most obvious example is head hopping in which the writer is just hopping into whatever character's head (POV) he needs to get out the information he needs. It's poor planning, maybe, or not writing with a sense of how it feels for the reader.

So if we look at this passage from your post:

Lina was sprawled awkwardly over the floor, rocking herself and holding her shin, trying to block out the sharp pain. Her garishly painted face—sleepover requirement number three—smeared down her cheeks. “I...hurt…my…leg,” she moaned halfway between laughing and crying. “Gawd, I didn’t—ah, man—see that chair.”

We know that Lina wouldn't experience this awkward sprawl as an awkward sprawl. That's how someone looking at her would describe it. So although, we're focused on Lina, the focus comes from without. If this were closer with Lina's POV, she'd feel her leg bent under her or her arm pinned behind her back. Then next bit about rocking herself doesn't jive with sprawled awkwardly. Try it. Sprawl on the floor. Can you rock? No, you have to collect yourself, have a pivot point to rock. So this creates further distance from Lina and even a distrust in the narrator's observation of Lina's spill. The reader is like, "Um, what's wrong with that narrator?" When we get to the painted face, we know that Lina can't observe her own face and that this would not be on her mind as she's holding her shin in pain. You could have her wiping off gobs of mascara the flowed with her tears, but what she'd see is black streaks on her hands. A narrator sees a garish face and smeared cheeks. You've got a narrator focused on Lina here, but that narrator isn't limited to Lina's observations.

If you want to get in tighter to a character's POV, try writing the section in first person, which will force you up tight with that character. Then just switch the pronouns back to third person. It's just a trick, but try it. I'd be interested to see what you'd do with these few sentences above after writing in first and switching to third.

[Avonne Writer]

CAN I SAY FOR THE RECORD THAT I REALLY HATE THAT THIS WEBSITE LOGS YOU OFF IF YOU TAKE EVEN A NANOSECOND TO COMPOSE A STINKIN' REPLAY. UGH!!! (I just had to get that off my chest)

On the website that I posted, it states that some authors are able to switch between POV's and/or Narrator omniscient. (I'm not that confident in my own skills) For practice that would be great, but I wouldn't be able to incorporate it into my novel. The only first person POV I want to interject is when MC has a personal epiphany and interjects--through mind speak--an internal opinion, or remark. Or as the omniscient narrator I can interject certain thoughts.

Anyway, the whole sprawled on the floor, as I visualize it in my mind is that Lina stumbles over chair lands "awkwardly" and then rocks in pain. (This would be a personal experience. I once tripped over a plastic box, fell off of the stair where I tripped and landed on the travertine floor. And, yes I was rocking in pain, trying to internalize the pain of my twisted ankle) So, to me that scene worked. Perhaps I should have her fall, then grab her shins and begin to rock in pain.

MG moves quickly and a lot of action happens that cannot truly be explained. I'm thinking that a ten year old won't catch onto that--and hopefully the agt won't either. (I'll have to take another look at some of the MG novels I have to see how they progress through scenes)

When I have time, I'll try some of these exercises as I'm sure they are great for helping to perfect the craft. Then when I go through for my hard core edits, i'll scrutinize text like this more closely.

[Amy Lou]

I agree Avonne!!! The same thing happens to me! LOL

[Avonne Writer]

And, this is so funny because I just noticed that there was a forum discussing this very issue. For me, it seems like i get timed out after only five minutes. I'm sure it will get fixed, it is just frustrating. I have to remember to copy my post before sending it, just in case.

[Amy Lou]

I've learned to do the same!