VANITY "PUBLISHING" IS A SCAM

[I Am a Great Writer]

There haven't been too many posts in this forum since a couple of weeks ago when I exposed vanity publishing for the scam that it is--nothing but a refuge for untalented, unpublishable "writers" who are too lazy to learn their craft, and who therefore don't mind getting rooked by vanity conmen.

So what say Writers.net just closes this forum down? It would be the responsible and ethical thing to do. After all, a website for doctors or lawyers wouldn't host a forum where people could discuss how to obtain phony medical or law degrees, right? Why should Writers.net continue to support a little-used forum dedicated to helping people who can't write to impersonate authors?

Impersonating an author should be a crime, just as it's illegal to impersonate a doctor, a lawyer, or other professional.

And the vanity scammers who help to perpetuated these cons and impersonations should all be in prison--what they do should be illegal.

[Murg]

Makes one wonder how much a vanity press charged you?????

[I Am a Great Writer]

Typical. You can't address any of the points I raised--so this means--what?--you're in agreement with me, right? And this useless, little-trafficked forum should be shut down for the good of writers and readers everywhere.

[Damien Nash]

If this forum is so "useless" and "little-trafficked" why are you so concerned that it is here? Its presence is obviously of no consequence if your opinions hold true.
I also fail to see how you "exposed" vanity publishing for the scam it is. While I agree that vanity publishing is just a way for companies to extract money from authors that may or may not get published elsewhere, this is hardly new information. Vanity publishers have been around for almost as long as traditional publishers. It is only due to the growth of the Internet over the last decade that has seen an increase in these establishments. They are not new.
Your analogy of lawyers and doctors is flawed. You need to pass recognised qualifications to attain these titles, an author you do not. To "impersonate an author" would imply that either a person who hasn't penned a book/article/play/whatever is telling others that they have written something or to assume the identity of someone else who has. An author, by definition is the writer of a book, article, play, etc. regardless of its publication status.
You also mention the "ability to learn their craft". Judging by your posts in this and other forums, I put it to you that your poor use of metaphors, similes and language in general would indicate your own inability in the craft of writing.
Many members of this site who have responded to you in the past have asked you to back up your posts by stating your writing credentials (i.e. previously published works) to which you have failed to even acknowledge, let alone provide us with such information. This would lead some to believe that you have not had anything you have created published.
It seems you cannot address these points when raised. So this means what? You are in agreement with them? Have you had anything published? Yes or no. Politicians avoid questions, not writers.
Finally, this forum is not just for vanity publishing. It is called "other ways into print". There are other ways than just vanity publishing, n'est pas?
Perhaps your self appointed moniker is more ironic than you intended it to be?

[Alan Neibauer]

To I Am A Great Writer

OK, you've said your piece, you had your forum. Thanks for the input. Now go about your business and don't waste your time in this forum that you feel is so useless. Leave this forum to those who want to continue their dreams. Good luck in all your future projects. Bye.

[Hamish (WritersNet)]

I suspect we all know what IAAGW's agenda is here. Kudos to the WritersNet community for failing to rise to the bait.

This forum is exactly what it purports to be and will be staying. It is in all writers' interest to be fully informed about all options open to them.

Hamish
WritersNet

[I Am a Great Writer]

>>It is in all writers' interest to be fully informed about all options open to them.

Let's be perfectly clear about this. Those writers who end up self-publishing or vanity publishing are not doing so because they have "weighed all the options." I mean, come on, nobody sits back and says "Ah yezz, I had a five-figure offer from Simon & Schuster, but I turned it down, because it makes a lot more sense for me to pay for publication rather than to be paid for it." That would be absurd.

And yet some misguided people continue to bleat that they are publishing with iUniverse after "looking at all the options." The only reason they are going to iUniverse is because the book is too sucky for any real publisher to OFFER MONEY FOR IT.

Duh. Double duh.

Self-publishing and vanity-publishing are for people whose books are so lousy that these writers *don't* have all the options. They've been checkmated by their inability to write. "Options" have nothing to do with it. So let's stop spreading the big lie that this is about "information" and "choice." It is strictly about being a no-talent loser.

AND ALL OF THIS IS TRUE REGARDLESS OF WHO I AM.

Get it?

[Damien Nash]

Nobody is disagreeing with your basic argument. People have their reasons for choosing the publishers they go with. Indeed, some do choose companies such as iUniverse because they cannot get published elsewhere, i.e. major publishing houses. People will make the wrong choice in publisher. However, just because you have written the greatest novel ever created, doesn't mean that it will get published by anyone.
Many editors would probably agree with this statement: "If you want to be published by a major publishing house, you need to write what the buying public want to read." I am sure there are people out there who have written masterpieces that come straight from the heart. However, no matter how good it is, if it isn't what the book-buying public want to read, no big publisher is going to want to publish it. It is these books that tend to end up either being self-published or falling on a vanity publishers desk. As with everything, some are great, others are utter crap.
At the end of the day, the established publishing industry is a business. A book (or any product) is published purely to make money, regardless of how good that book actually is. Not beacuse it is a great novel. True, most top selling novels are great ones, but not always.
Lets take another camparable industry: computer games. How many times have you (by which I mean a games playing person) gone out and bought a game for your PC, Playstation, whatever, taken it home, played it and realised it is a pile of crap? Why was that game released? Because the company that released it knows it will sell, not because of the quality of the game. The same goes with books.
Writers will continue to write for the love of writing.
Publishers will continue to publish because they make money. That's the truth. Why? Because we live in a fiscal society.

Oh, and "I am a great writer", I am not interested in WHO you are. I am just interested to see if you (as a person who attacks people for not addressing points and questions raised in your posts, and I quote "Typical. You can't address any of the points I raised--so this means--what?--you're in agreement with me, right?") are willing to answer a direct question when confronted with one.

[I Am a Great Writer]

>>Nobody is disagreeing with your basic argument.

You should have stopped there. Because what you go on to say is highly inaccurate.

>>just because you have written the greatest novel ever created,
doesn't mean that it will get published by anyone.

YES IT WILL! It is only a matter of finding the right agent and editor. Most of the deals in NY are made by 300 agents. That is a LOT of agents to query. Not all of them are dunderheads. Talent is always recognized, as long as the writer doesn't give up.

>>no matter how good it is, if it isn't what the book-buying public want to read, no big publisher is going to want to publish it.

That is totally incorrect--stop lying! You don't know anything about publishing. Please stop misinforming people. The publishers have no idea what the public wants to read. Publishers have no idea at all how any particular book is going to do. It is ALWAYS a gamble. Some books they think will do well flop; others that weren't so highly thought of go on to do extremely well. Publishers are not psychics. It's impossible to predict what will happen in this volatile industry. Any editor, when being honest, will TELL you that. Have you ever talked to one? I've talked to dozens and have worked with them as well.

>>It is these books that tend to end up either being self-published or falling on a vanity publishers desk.

THAT IS A TOTAL LIE. This lie is spread by vanity presses and their "authors." A good book, when sufficiently shopped--the key word is sufficiently--will eventually be taken by a reputable house. Most of the vanity books are no damned good at all--any good ones in there are by ball-less writers who gave up too soon. But *mostly* they are no damned good. To become an author, you have to be good AND have the balls to keep trying.

>>most top selling novels are great ones

What planet are you on??? Most top-selling novels are utter worthless crap. The good writing is found in the midlist these days.

>>Lets take another camparable industry

There IS no comparable industry! There is no other industry that works the way publishing does. You are completely ignorant about publishing, my friend. You need to educate yourself on its unique elements.

[Damien Nash]

This could go on forever and ever. I am not going to continue arguing with you. Direct questions from you I will answer.
1) Yes I have talked to editors (albeit from UK houses).
2) Planet Earth, specifically the outskirts of London, England. By top selling, I did not mean bestsellers. I should have been more specific and I apologise.
The rest I pretty much stand by.

If anyone else in this forum who disagrees with what I have said, please say so and between us we can work out any misconceptions I may or may not have. Being UK born and bred, I cannot claim to know everything about the NY big houses. If I am getting things wrong I want to know about it. I am not perfect, I doubt I ever will be. I am still capable of learning though. I am prepared to listen to anyone who is prepared to be reasonable. This forum is a learning resource is it not?