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  1. #31
    L Bea
    Guest

    Re: Revised first chapter

    Conor,

    If publishing is not your passion, then leave me alone on this forum. Go away. I mean it. I'm not gonna critique for some little boy that wants to finish his homework. So what <u>is</u> your passion? Seriously. I wanna know. If you don't want to reveal it here on this forum, then email me. Go to my profile and email me. I seriously wanna know. I'm about facing things directly. At the end of the day, it's all about what we really want. What drives us. THAT means something to me. And Conor--bring that ripped chest.

    Bea~



  2. #32
    Smiling Curmudgeon
    Guest

    Re: Revised first chapter

    Conor,

    Go buy the heaviest duty block-and-tackle you can find. Then use it to try to lift the gargantuan chip off your shoulder. If you're successful, keep it. Any timber company will offer you a buncha money for the thousands of square feet of wood it represents.

    You hit the nail on the head, your head I might add, when you boasted in your reply above to Bea, "...I'm headstrong and angry and stubborn." What are your bad characteristics?

    A couple days ago you posted material and asked for comments. You received comments. A number of responders said you show talent, but that the first excerpt had various things going against it.

    You relentlessly pooh-poohed nearly every reply you received. Not all, but nearly so. Seems pretty clear to this reader that you're looking for huzzahs, not critique.

    Then you posted this revision. Keith gave you good comments. He didn't attack you. True to form, you went sideways. At that point, Keith was blunt.

    I read this revision. You have cleaned up much of the grammar. For this reader, it's still internal monologue with not much to pique my interest. I don't have a hard-on about internal monologue, but I do want a writer to get me interested. I didn't see the sense of urgency you said you tried to put in this revision. Hints of it, but not enough. Show something about what your character has at stake. As it stands, he strikes me as self-indulgent. That might not be a problem if you show us other redeeming characteristics. The letter to his brother didn't do that for me.

    What you've written isn't awful. It's just not interesting. I'm one of the folks who think you have talent. I'm also one who thinks you have work ahead of you. If you're willing to invest that work. But, as you also proclaimed to Bea, "...specialization is for insects, not man." Teen condescension may be your forte.

    Then, L Bea, who was one of your faves until her post above, didn't snuggle up and whisper sweet nothings to you. What the hell could Bea have been thinking?

    Right away, you went on the defensive. Again.

    You said to Bea, "But one unerring truth is that I have a gift of writing the shadowed side of emotions." You do have talent. This reader got bits of the "shadowed side of emotions." But not enough. Prolly I'm too stoopid to comment on your brilliance.

    There are some good lines. One is, "An urban masterpiece, a city-born kaleidoscope, an industrial perfume." I liked that. But it's kinda out of context. You haven't shown this reader enough to set it up.

    Okay, thazz 'nuf.

    While we insects ply our inconsequential lives, you'll swan around trumpeting---in your blow-up swimming pool.

    Capisce?

    I'll try to be sure I don't waste your time again.

    Cur

  3. #33
    Jeanne Gassman
    Guest

    Re: Revised first chapter

    Conor,

    Sorry, but I agree with Bea. I have two kids are 19 and 20, respectively, and I think I can say with some confidence that they would NEVER respond as rudely as you have here. There is such a thing as good manners. If you don't like a critique or don't agree, then ignore it or say THANK YOU, and move on.

    Yes, you have talent, but so do lots of other people--people who are willing to work their butts off to improve. Are you willing to put in that effort? Do you have the intestinal fortitude to trash 50K words of a novel when you discover it's garbage? A writer who is truly serious about his/her craft can and will do that?

    Please read my new post above called "Some thoughts on critique netiquette." It applies to you. When you attack others, you offend those who have stepped forward (such Bea, Cur, and myself) to help you. Think about that.

    Jeanne

  4. #34
    Conor Beaulieu
    Guest

    Re: Revised first chapter

    Okay, the insect comment was really, really misunderstood. I did NOT mean it like that. It's from my favorite quote in the world:

    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

    -Robert A. Heinlein


    As for the headstrong, angry, and stubborn comments, I wasn't boasting. I know what I am. I know who I am. Bad and the good.

    The whole keith thing? My comment about not reading something wasn't directed at him, whatsoever. And it's unbelievably clear that he did over-react, big time. If you notice by post before the not reading comment, I asked him to extrapolate on a couple things, because he DID give good advice. The whole thing was a misunderstanding, but his tone and outburst made me angry at him, so yeah. Fault on him, fault on me.

    As for Bea? Let's get it out of the way. I still respect her advice. It was good. Not going to say different.

    The MC being self-indulgent? I guess I need to outline his crippling fear of regret. He's scared to death of not doing anything with his life. He shows good qualities later, as soon as the second chapter. He's chivalrous, currently naive as hell about the good in the world, and he's idealistic. He also has a moral compass which I plan to scar over the course of the book.

    The point of the story is this young man, representing my generation in his facelessness and namelessness, coming to terms with the cold hard futility of life, and living anyways. He's not some shining knight, unquestionably valorous, because my generation is most definitely not. My generation is confused and angry and restless and hungry for direction and purpose in life He has a hell of a lot of flaws, and his strengths may be out of sync with what society says is right, but he has an unparalleled passion for life, and he intends to live it.

    Catcher in the Rye's MC was a self indulgent, whiny teenager. I want to make my MC that, because its true, but so much more.



    As for you, Bea? My passion is simple. I want to be happy. I want to die with as little regrets as possible. I want to be a flash fire, and not a slowly cooling ember. Whatever it takes to do that, is my passion.


    Conor.

  5. #35
    Conor Beaulieu
    Guest

    Re: Revised first chapter

    And Jeanne, I'm sure your kids had much better parents than I did. Not passing blame, I am the person I am, but just saying.

  6. #36
    Jeanne Gassman
    Guest

    Re: Revised first chapter

    Fair enough, Conor. See, you do have the ability to be polite.

    Just think before you post, okay? If you're mad or ticked off, give it a day or two before you answer. Or just forget about it.

    Jeanne

  7. #37
    Conor Beaulieu
    Guest

    Re: Revised first chapter

    Oh I think before I post, alright. My problem is that my thinking just reinforces what I was going to say. =P

  8. #38
    Cindy Kay
    Guest

    Re: Revised first chapter

    Ah, my dear Conor, I find you rather a delight.

    I'm athinking you're still searching for a worthy adversary, failing and lashing out at us inconsequencial ones. You know the old general's advice to his soldiers about spilling the "vital juices" before the battle? You've got a battle ahead -- the most ferocious are always with ourselves. Save the jack juice for the story, my boy. You'll find your way without begging and obiterating by turns.

  9. #39
    Conor Beaulieu
    Guest

    Re: Revised first chapter

    Glad I've made you smile, ma'am, even though what you meant by the adversary sentence eludes me. Poor brain.

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