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  1. #21
    John Oberon
    Guest

    Re: Revamped portion of chapter 1 (thanks to GaryK and Bea)

    Well, I've made my living from writing and editing for a little over 25 years. I guess you could call that credentials. I have two degrees, one in English composition and another in Education. I suppose that could be considered credentials. I've taught writing and English. I guess that's credentials. I've written, edited, and illustrated hundreds, if not thousands of technical documents. That might be considered credentials. I've written about a dozen novels/screenplays, though not published. That could be credentials.

    You mean you use CMS to write novels? Okay. Good for you. First guy I've met that does. For myself, I think most authors are aware of CMS and it's contents, but don't actually follow it strictly for their writing; they like a great deal of latitude for creativity. As a matter of fact, I think most on here HATE the idea of any hard and fast rules to writing. Most writers I know that use CMS use it for corporate standards or specialized writing. Anyway, I don't know what the fuss is about CMS. There's about a bazillion style manuals out there, all of them half-decent.

    My own rules that I put out are for beginners, and they're nothing that ten million other writers don't say at one time or another.

    I don't really know what you're after Gary or what your so ticked about. By my ruler, yours is bigger. There...make you feel better?



  2. #22
    Gary Kessler
    Guest

    Re: Revamped portion of chapter 1 (thanks to GaryK and Bea)

    We were talking about editing. CMS is used almost universally by book publishers in editing fiction. Your questioning that tells volumes about you and your actual functioning in the industry. This is your statement, your words: "And if you want to use the CMS for novels, well...I've never heard of that either."

    What published books have you edited, again? What publisher(s) was/were that? Your profile lists technical editing. What published books? Book editing is specific.

    (You may have credentials for editing in the publishing industry, but they obviously have to be pulled out of you--you seem to be dancing around the point.)

    And have you charged someone $30/hour to edit a book manuscript? I seem to have seen that claimed here. True or not?

    Book editing is a profession, by the way. There are university programs teaching it and editorial associations. Where did you go to book editing school; what editorial association(s) do you belong to?

    Writers taking advice here have a right to know what that advice is based on.

  3. #23
    John Oberon
    Guest

    Re: Revamped portion of chapter 1 (thanks to GaryK and Bea)

    I have never edited a complete novel manuscript, and never claimed to, although I did offer to edit a novel for a person on here. I have edited virtually every other type of writing, from manuals, to advertising copy, to magazine articles, to plays, to academic and research papers, to newsletters. By the way, what do you charge for editing?

    I don't understand your point. Are you trying to say that unless a person is a bona fide professional book editor that belongs to professional organizations, that person has no valid advice to offer about writing? Or that only advice from a professional book editor is valid? Or that professional book editor advice invalidates all other advice? Because if any of that's what you're trying to say, then we can agree to disagree.

    I'm curious, Gary - what exactly is stuck in your craw? You seem awful angry about something.

  4. #24
    John Oberon
    Guest

    Re: Revamped portion of chapter 1 (thanks to GaryK and Bea)

    Hey, Gary, I just read this in another thread:

    The lousy writer has excellent links to all of the style guides, but for a novel, knowledge of basic grammar rules will suffice. The style guides are usually intended for specific uses, such as formal papers, news articles, abstracts, editing mss. into published works, etc.

    Jeanne G. wrote that in reference to CMS, and you had no problem with it, saying you just cite CMS when specific grammar questions arise. I say pretty much the same thing as Jeanne, saying I thought CMS was used pretty much for corporate standards and specialized writing, and you have a problem. What's up?

  5. #25
    Rogue Mutt
    Guest

    Re: Revamped portion of chapter 1 (thanks to GaryK and Bea)

    although I did offer to edit a novel for a person on here.

    Pfft, for $20/hour. From the sound of it, it wouldn't be worth the money.

  6. #26
    John Oberon
    Guest

    Re: Revamped portion of chapter 1 (thanks to GaryK and Bea)

    Yes...it was a special rate for Mutt. Mutt doesn't like punctuation rules, particularly comma rules, so I offered to edit his mss without considering punctuation. But I don't know Gary...maybe since you have the super-secret book editor decoder ring, you can sell him on CMS comma rules. I doubt it though. Mutt's a rule unto himself and proud of it, right Mutt? Rogue all the way. And he's more the rule than the exception on here.

  7. #27
    Rogue Mutt
    Guest

    Re: Revamped portion of chapter 1 (thanks to GaryK and Bea)

    Sounds like you got a great racket going, Oberon. Maybe I can con people into giving me thousands of dollars to edit their manuscripts. My credentials are just as good!

  8. #28
    John Oberon
    Guest

    Re: Revamped portion of chapter 1 (thanks to GaryK and Bea)

    Yep, it's a great living, Mutt - but there's a catch...you can't "con" anyone; it only works if you can actually do what you say you can do. Otherwise, you don't last too long - certainly not 25 years in the same area.

    I've never heard your credentials, Mutt. What are they?

  9. #29
    Rogue Mutt
    Guest

    Re: Revamped portion of chapter 1 (thanks to GaryK and Bea)

    We haven't heard yours either. That's the point.

  10. #30
    John Oberon
    Guest

    Re: Revamped portion of chapter 1 (thanks to GaryK and Bea)

    I just told you mine. Are you talking publishing credits or something? I suppose it depends on what you mean by "credentials". If I initially met a man of my experience and education, I would say, at least ostensibly, that he had writing "credentials".

    By "credentials", I mean education, knowledge, or experience that lends credence to his claimed writing expertise. What do YOU mean by "credentials"?

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