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  1. #131
    Denise .
    Guest

    Re: Feedback, criticism please :)

    That was for John. Excuse me, i've been drinking.



  2. #132
    Alex Richardson
    Guest

    Re: Feedback, criticism please :)

    Yet again I have to go back on my 'last post' promises.

    Listen to me. You have all spent far too much time arguing over one piece, which, i'll be the first to admit isn't brilliant. It's got to the stage where it's John vs. the rest of the world in little more than a mud-slinging contest. lol. You all have your opinions on it, none of you are going to change your mind, so just let it lie.

    John O - I understand why you think it's tripe. I agree with you that I have written a fairly run-of-the-mill adolescent piece, that isn't particularly unique or special. I'm not dismissing your views at all. But... please, put your opinion across in a way that doesn't sound like your personally insulting me. It's not pleasant at all.

    The rest of the world - Believe it or not, i've read all your individual posts and noted down the important parts (bar the discussion about the meaning of tripe :S) and I assure you I will use your advice to better my work. Thankyou all.

    Now stop posting...

    -Alex

  3. #133
    L Bea
    Guest

    Re: Feedback, criticism please :)

    Death and pain is the rule in this life. It's common. You want to write something with impact? Write something life affirming. It's much more interesting and challenging than this tripe.

    Yes you did, John. You can try to twist and turn what you DIDN'T say, but it's here in black and white.

    ~ Bea

  4. #134
    John Oberon
    Guest

    Re: Feedback, criticism please :)

    Good grief, Bea, I was calling his writing tripe, not death and pain. "This tripe" refers his story, not death and pain in general. Is it that difficult to understand?

    But you know, I think I'm starting to see the light. I really am. You guys are right. Yes, suicide really IS a solution to just about any problem. Yes, it's a strong and powerful message to the world. I see it now. Killing yourself because you're not popular, the teacher doesn't attend to you, and your parents bicker...why, that's absolutely soul-crushing, who could possibly withstand under that kind of abuse? It wouldn't surprise me if her parents fed her McDonald's for dinner instead of the pizza she wanted, the brutes. And her, a poor, defenseles, impressionable, young girl to boot. I see it now. Living your life in service to others or convincing someone NOT to kill themselves…hah, THAT’S tripe. Imagine if Alex wrote a cheesy, mambsy-pambsy story like that. It’s so…what did Leslee say…vapid. Yes. Perfect word. It’s so weak and empty. What was I thinking? What else even approaches the power, the poignancy, even the majesty of suicide? Now THERE is reality. Honestly, it’s difficult to think of ANYTHING that surpasses it, don’t you agree? Living…ANYONE can do that, but suicide? That takes a powerful person. Yes, an incredibly strong and brave person too…someone willing to sacrifice their life in order to send the world a much needed message. I agree with you all. The world could do with a lot more of these kind of portrayals.

    Yes, I feel it now. Those feelings...yes, the FEELINGS...THAT'S what's important. And Denise, you're right, it is SO true. Kids feel those emotions all the time, and I was one of them. I felt those feelings before, and I think everyone has. You are so right. That's all that's needed to portray truth - just the fact that something exists. Nazism is truth, Jeffrey Dahmer was truth. It's horrible, but it's truth and no one can deny it. How COULD I have been so blind? I was so wrong.

    And Bets, what can I say? You were right and I was wrong. This piece…what were the words you used…gutsy and risky. Yes. That describes it perfectly. NOBODY writes about this stuff, especially teenagers. Poor Alex…I almost worry for him going so far out on a limb like this. He’ll be ostracized for sure, sticking out his individuality so blatantly, but I’m sure he realizes that’s the price to be paid for art. I’m sure the power of the piece will mitigate some of the suffering…how could it not?

    And Leslee, Bardy, and Bea…words fail me. I just couldn’t see it for some reason Alex’s writing is just as valid as mine or yours or Mark Twain’s or a psychotic’s in an asylum or Hitler’s. Every story has value to him who writes it. How could I have missed this glaring truth? There can NEVER be a standard for good writing, something we strive to reach, because the standard lies within each of us. It’s actually kind of funny how we give each other advice like there IS some kind of standard, but that’s just a façade. What we’re REALLY doing is comparing standards. It’s ALL opinion. We’re all just helping our individual standards evolve into a personal standard that fits our spirits and temperaments. Nothing is ever really excellent or poor or good or evil. It’s all relative…just a matter of what you happen to think of it given your circumstances. I cannot believe I’ve lived all these years and missed this foundational truth. I am a Scrooge reborn, friends! To think we still allow teachers to grade papers…but outcome-based education will soon remedy that faulty thinking.

    I cannot believe my arrogance friends, forgive me. I was self-deluded. I thought there was real good in the world and real evil. I thought there was real excellence and real mediocrity. I thought…now don’t laugh at me, I’m almost laughing myself…that some writers were BETTER than others, not subjectively, but OBJECTIVELY. I know, I know…it’s ridiculous. And you know what else? I once thought…sheesh, I’m turning red…that there were MASTERS of writing. Yes, real, objective MASTERS. What a fool I was.

    And just to show you the depth of my delusion, I’ll even tell you a dark secret of mine. Confession cannot harm me since the sin no longer holds me in its sway. I used to read these “masters” and compare their writings to try to discover similarities. Isn’t that a hoot? I can laugh about it now. I used to analyze the topics they wrote about, their style, the words they used, everything and…suffice it to say that I deluded myself into believing I found quite a few similarities. Of course, it doesn’t matter one bit, thanks to you Bea, Bardy, and Leslee. Certainly, I feel a bit peeved at having WASTED all that time trying to cobble together a non-existent standard from non-existent masters, but such was my delusion, and it’s a small cost to embrace TRUTH.

    I tell you it is SUCH a weight from my shoulders…all this time trying to reach a phantom standard. I can’t believe I spent all that time looking up and out, when I only needed to look down and within. I struggled to climb, never realizing I already stood at the summit! All that matters is that I like what I write, and I stand at the pinnacle. Every story is valid. No one else needs to find any value in it. It doesn’t need any value at all. In fact, it can cause harm, but as long as I provide information, tell a story, entertain, gain notoriety, or earn some money my writing is good. After all, one man’s treasure is another man’s trash, and I choose to view all my writing as treasure. This is wonderful!

    Thank you, thank you all so much.

    John Oberon, with special thanks to Jonathan Swift.

  5. #135
    Jon Campbell
    Guest

    Re: Feedback, criticism please :)

    John,

    Now that was a "POWERFUL" piece.

    Jon

  6. #136
    Denise .
    Guest

    Re: Feedback, criticism please :)

    "In fact, it can cause harm, but as long as I provide information, tell a story,"

    do you realize how fascist this sounds? I guess we should never have been privy to "The Diary of Anne Frank." Learning of all those Jews being burned to a crisp probably cause harm, it probably made someone have nightmares.

    You, Mr. Oberon, have done nothing but make yourself look like fool. And I pray no one in your family ever commits suicide.

  7. #137
    John Oberon
    Guest

    Re: Feedback, criticism please :)

    If you think Anne Frank's work is about "all those jews being burned to a crisp", I shouldn't wonder that you misunderstand my writing.

    I thank you for your prayers.

  8. #138
    Denise .
    Guest

    Re: Feedback, criticism please :)

    You enjoy making other people feel stupid, don't you John?

    I know that it isn't directly about that, but yes, it is also about that. Excuse me for not choosing the book you would have preferred. Jesus Christ, man. You are the worst kind of ass hole.

  9. #139
    Bardy Body
    Guest

    Re: Feedback, criticism please :)

    People say Hemmingway is a great writer. I think his writing sucks. I can't get through any of his books because his writing is so phony. John, it will come to you eventually. You've fallen into a logic trap.

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