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  1. #11
    Gary Kessler
    Guest

    Carolyn

    So who told her to abandon all hope? What she's being told is to suspend this insane fixation on getting published now and to start getting the education that will make her publishable. And, again, she's been told this before. She just isn't listening--which is no reason why we should continue humoring her here.



  2. #12
    F Walter
    Guest

    Re: Carolyn

    Gary I believe Carolyn is refering to the last part of Roy's post;

    Now, all you who may be inclined to defend this high school graduate, please do her a favor and join me in telling her to forget trying to write.

    If she ever gets anything published, I'll eat it and give her an hour to draw a crowd to watch me do it.

    Roy, I have no intentions of ignoring your future posts. For the most your a nice guy who talks sense and I like that but it has to be said that you have a mean streak and on this occasion I have to agree that was unecessarily harsh.
    Perhaps you'd do better to just not read any of Kayla's posts in the future. It's obvious she gets on your wick but this is a freeboard so like it or not she can keep asking for advice as much as she likes.
    Like me she clearly isn't ready to be published in any way, shape or form.
    However, if all you can do is tear strips off her then why waste your time at the keyboard.
    Let others who'll maybe offer other helpful advice at the same time as answering her questions.

    Kayla, your just not ready but if you really want to write then dont give up trying. Also do you think you could please start putting spaces between your sentences. Its a real basic rule to remember and really, really irritating when continuously ignored.
    Fran.

  3. #13
    Bly Oxford
    Guest

    Re: Kayla & all

    Since I have encouraged Kayla, and I do encourage her as have all who have responded in different ways, I must respond to this.

    Kayla, you do need to practice writing your posts and anything else you write with attention to detail. If you make a habit of carefully wording everything you write--whether you consider it important or not--your sentence structure, words, grammar and everything else pertaining to writing will steadily improve.


    This is a forum for writers. It is not a simple chatroom where everything is forgiven. And this is for all who come to this board and expect to be taken seriously with no respect for us and the art of writing. To ask others to view one's work when it is thrown to us without care, is similar to inviting people into your home and expecting them to ignore cockroaches running about.
    Bly

  4. #14
    Molly B.
    Guest

    For Bly

    A point very well taken. Critiquing unpolished work is similar to appraising a single brushstroke on an otherwise empty canvas. It's not ready yet...

    Cheers!
    Molly

  5. #15
    Roy Abrahams
    Guest

    Re: To Fran and Kayla

    Fran:

    In all seriousness, I admit a mean streak has been my bane for some five decades. Thank you for calling me on it; Your diplomacy in pointing it out is appreciated and I accept the chastisement. In the spirit of cooperation, I will temper my remarks in the future.

    To Kayla:

    With the above in mind, I sincerely apologize for heaping all the unwarranted vilification upon you. In looking back, I cannot escape the fact that you have never responded to me in kind. That says a lot for you as opposed to the shame I have brought to myself.

    To all others who have noted my weakness, I also apologize. My vituperation has put an undeserved dark cloud over writers.net, something I abhorr in others whose sole purpose is to create dissention. I have joined their ranks but wish to leave them. Feel free to catch me up in any such instances in the future.

    With respect for all of you...........Roy

  6. #16
    Keith Postler
    Guest

    Re: To Fran and Kayla

    Roy,

    I don't want to take you to task for anything you posted. I agree with all of it, but diplomacy never hurts.

    I also wanted to point out that you spelled -- or may have spelled -- "abhorr" wrong. According to a dictionary I opened, it's spelled "abhor" and didn't offer any alternative spellings. Of course, that could've been a simple typographical error, correct?

    --Keith

  7. #17
    Roy Abrahams
    Guest

    Re: To Fran and Kayla

    Not a typo, Keith.......I knew abhorrent had two "r's" and mistakenly thought the verb also had two. Thanks for the correction.
    Roy

  8. #18
    Keith Postler
    Guest

    Re: To Fran and Kayla

    No problemo, Roy.

    --Keith

  9. #19
    Reese Greer
    Guest

    Re: To write ... to wit ...

    Kayla,
    As I have repeatedly told you, you are in dire need of working on your English grammar. Though some of Roy's comments were perhaps a bit extreme, I cannot fault him too harshly as basically, his criticisms are correct. The real issue I take with this is that, most of these comments have been made before on these boards and yet you continue to make some silly, no, stupid mistakes. You need to be more careful about spelling and structure. (sound familiar?) You need to perhaps think more carefully about what you write (Yes, we all need to do that!)

    Your idea of your high school paper being a good newspaper article is probably a good one but I don't think you are ready for that. First of all, you don't want to leave a newspaper editor with a bad taste in his/her mouth. You are not ready for that yet. Don't get too far ahead of yourself.

    Right now, your English education is probably at about a seventh grade level. Your spelling is far less than that. If you seriously want to be a serious writer, you need to get back to the basics. Don't be too easily satisfied with your work. No one in the business will. Proof your work very carefully. (heard that before?) And when you are done, do it again.

    As an interesting side note: There was a case several years ago where a couple sued the board of education and their city because their daughter could not get into any college because her SAT scores were so low. And they won their case!

    Kayla, if you want to succeed in anything, respect yourself enough to hold yourself to the highest standard. Expect more of yourself than anyone else expects of you or that you expect of anyone else. You may never be able to reach that standard, but you should always try for it. Whatever you do, always expect the best from yourself. Don't be satisfied with mediocre work. And that, my dear, is what you are producing right now and that won't get you work anywhere but MacDonalds.

    Keep writing. Keep trying.
    Keep reaching for something better.
    Reese

  10. #20
    bill0287
    Guest

    To Kayla

    I thought I'd chime in here as well.

    Kayla,

    From where I sit, you are in an enviable position: you have youth on your side, and the will and desire to accomplish something beyond viewing the latest episode of American Idol. That alone puts you ahead of most other teenagers (and many adults) that I know.

    However, you would be well served if you harnessed that desire and enthusiam into smaller, more realistic goals.

    Heed the advice that appears above and do not focus on the idea of publishing or selling your writing. Focus instead on building the foundation and the tools necessary to accomplish your goals. What this means is you must study the craft of writing as you would study any other craft, such as painting, or music, etc.

    For example, you would not pick up a guitar and attempt to play a classical concerto without first taking the necessary lessons (I hope not).

    You can begin filling your 'toolbox' by reading voraciously, learning from classes or writing books, listening to others who give advice, writing often (applying what you've leaned), and practicing this pattern over and over.

    If you can, find someone in your area who will read and critique your work. Perhaps a teacher, or a college level student would be willing to help you.

    Make a promise to yourself to not think about submitting anything professionally for a year or two. Spend that time practicing and learning. Your goal in that time should be to improve - nothing else. You have so much time ahead of you that there's really no excuse for not taking advantage of it.

    Write something - show it to someone - get their advice - rewrite it - get more advice - rewrite it again and again until the only comment you get from the reader is "nice work". Start small and build from the ground up.

    At the end of that period compare what you've written then to what you've written now. Hopefully there will be marked improvement.

    Remember though, that hard work and perseverance alone will NOT guarantee success in writing or any other endeavor...but without it, you will certainly fail.

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