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Thread: Is there a?

  1. #31
    Molly B.
    Guest

    Re: Julia's Parable...

    ...is not in the Bible. It's glurge that was created after that time based on Jesus's words, "Whatsoever you do the least of my brothers, that you do unto me." Just a correction of citation. From a rule-follower. :-P



  2. #32
    Billy Cryer
    Guest

    Re: Julia's Parable...

    Dear Julia,

    Being "different" and unique is not always easy, and nearly always meets a load of opposition. Emily Dickinson stirred up a nasty scandal when she refused to make "pearl" rhyme with "wine." (I can't remember the exact words, but the point still stands) People thought it was an outrage, and you would have thought it was sacrilegious. Walt Whitman was just as untraditional with his long, unrhymed, inconsistent verbage. Of course, Roy is correct in that they both knew very well the rules that they were breaking. I think you are on the right track. Keep at it. The more you write, the better your writing will become. There will always be an audience for you. I guess your goal is finding that audience. In the meantime, keep working at your craft. Practice, practice, practice. Read, read, read, and read, and read some more. Never stop reading.

  3. #33
    scribbler2
    Guest

    Re: Julia's Parable...

    Billy, that's just plain misleading. There will NOT always be an audience for - anyone. There is no guarantee. This is a very, very tough business, tougher now than in years past. New authors are competing against very skilled authors. I'm sorry, but I don't see Julia as breaking any molds with her posts here. She's just choosing to ignore punctuation and capitalization and correct spelling. How does that automatically equate to Emily Dickinson or Walt Whitman?

    I think the most foolish thing we can do over here is to mislead new authors into thinking that no matter how poorly they write, if they just try hard enough they will make it. If we're being honestly helpful, we will direct aspiring authors to improve their skills, hone their craft, read what is actually being published, and open their eyes to extremely selective nature of publishing right now.

  4. #34
    Gary Kessler
    Guest

    Re: Julia's Parable...

    We have a whole passel of folks posting on other boards right now (on the Poetry.com/Noble House scam) that pretty much illustrate what Scribbler says above. Lots of these posters (many of whom exhibit substandard literacy in their posts) have chosen to write poetry (asserting that there's no such thing as bad poetry; the mere self-expression of "whatever" justifies the poetry) precisely because they chose to assume that whatever they write and however they write it is legitimate literature. What this really does is save them the effort of studying the foundations of literature and of creative writing. They just decide these only matter to old, never-changing fuddy-duddies. Zabracadabra!! Instant writer.

    But, like those folks sending their poetry to Poetry.com, they are only duping themselves and no one is bothering to read whatever they "publish"--and they are never going to write anything worthwhile until they stop fooling themselves and put a little effort into their development (which means at least finding out why creative writing is structured as it is before innovating on that).

  5. #35
    Billy Cryer
    Guest

    Re: Julia's Parable...

    Scribbler2, I agree with you about directing aspiring authors to improve their skills, etc. But I still believe that there will always be an audience. Even if it's just your best friend, like in Dickinson's case. Dickinson didn't become well known until after her death. The same with countless other writers. I'm not trying to be peevish or anything. I just don't see why people have to condemn instead of encourage. That's what I'm trying to do for Julia. I think she has great talent. All that she needs to do is refine it. And that's what we are here for, right?
    Billy

  6. #36
    Gary Kessler
    Guest

    Re: Julia's Parable...

    I wasn't aware that we've been given access to any of Julia's creative writing. My responses have all been to what she says she does and doesn't do (which have been somewhat contradictory).

  7. #37
    Roy Abrahams
    Guest

    Re: Julia's Parable...

    Billy......replying with the same respect you tendered Scribbler in your last post, I feel impelled to cite some facts that seem to have escaped many of us here.

    First, if one who writes with such obvious contempt for the written form of our language as does Julia, then defends their travesties with travesties of reasoning, it can be rightly assumed that this person will most likely never progress to a point where they can compose commercially viable pieces of poetry or prose, fiction or non-fiction. With the inevitability of this being so apparent, it should be hard for anyone to see her as having great talent or even the promise of same.

    Secondly, a close reading of Julia's posts will disclose a person with far too many grievances of a disturbing nature. I refer here to her several mentions of "white males" as being some sort of scourge. "White males" have written all of history, according to her. Edison, she says, was a "White male" who stole the idea for the light bulb from some poor "nobody" (non-white?) who wasn't as powerful as Edison. Only the "well versed, educated, monied," she says, will be accorded the right to be read. Such sure signs of instability cannot be missed; they should be taken into consideration when assessing her future as a writer.

    I won't paste here the many other proofs of Julia's distorted ideas of reality as she so clearly defines them in her posts. It is enough to objectively read them through, letting her words speak for themselves, to get an unclouded picture of a person too tied up with distracting personal issues. These will probably prevent her from ever writing at a level beyond what we see now over her name.

    I do commend all the posters on this thread for their compassion. But, as Scribbler so thoughtfully points out,

    "I think the most foolish thing we can do over here is to mislead new authors into thinking that no matter how poorly they write, if they just try hard enough they will make it. If we're being honestly helpful, we will direct aspiring authors to improve their skills, hone their craft, read what is actually being published, and open their eyes to extremely selective nature of publishing right now."

    I would not have said that as kindly. Nor have I. But, however it is presented, the truth is the truth and facts are facts.

  8. #38
    Billy Cryer
    Guest

    Re: Julia's Parable...

    Roy, thanks for the graciousness with which you handled that. Honestly, I haven't been here long enough to be making universal statements. Not that my opinions can sway the masses. You, and Scribbler, and Gary all have very good points. I will not argue. Though, as a person who has grown up wedged between two cultures myself, I can understand some of Julia's comments. Often, one's struggles with coming to terms with a cultural identity can carry over to the writing experience. Of course, I'm just postulating here, and am probably way off the target. To Julia, I think that ultimately, people here are trying to be constructive in their ctiticism. If it doesn't come across that way, then I commend you for weathering the storm.

  9. #39
    Gary Kessler
    Guest

    Re: Julia's Parable...

    To be quite clear, when I say that I didn't realize that Julia had given us access to any of her actual creative writing, there was no intended coding in there that her writing must either reveal "great talent" as Billy asserted or that it couldn't be any good because she claims that rules and form don't motivate her. I mean exactly what I say--that I haven't seen any samples of her creative writing so can't make any judgment on her writing talent and/or ability at all.

    All of the possibilites are open concerning the current state of her writing talent and ability: Her writing might be absolutely unstructured and still recognizable as brilliant and trend breaking (e.g., the multimedia writing of Michener's brilliant young novelist in The Novel), her writing might be fairly conventional and can belie her claims that she isn't motivated by rules and conventions (which is probably the most likely case), her writing might be pure dreck, or she might not write at all.

    All I can tell from what she actually posts is that she either is misanthropic and anticonvention for anticonvention sake or is pretending to be so through some sort of Bohemian fantasy of how great writers act.

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