The synopsis |
Author: LFS (128.196.10.---)
Date: 01-07-02 16:29
I have not even tried to get something published yet and am intimidated by the process. I have read a guideline on creating a synopsis of a novel and the recommendation is that it takes a page of synopsis for approximately every 25-30 pages of text. I have a 220,000 word manuscript and am worried that an agent would not read such a lengthy synopsis. I am also concerned about creating a proper query letter. I have read the literature and the sample letters that resulted in a publication, but do not know how to balance the personal information with the information about the book. Does it matter what I do for a living and that I work two jobs and don't have a degree in writing? Should the agent be told that I have published only a scientific article, which may not matter to someone looking at a piece of fiction? Finally, I don't even know how to categorize the manuscript. If I had to think of books of a similar type, I would put it in a category like the Prince of Tides, or Thornbirds. What is this called? Dramatic fiction? Adult fiction? I am very concerned about querying agents who would not be interested in it merely because I misclassified it and they are not interested in this type of fiction.
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Re: The synopsis |
Author: Bob Kellogg (---.san.rr.com)
Date: 01-08-02 17:06
LFS, you're climbing on what one perceptive woman called "the moibius strip of marketing." You'll need to learn new skills.
A query letter is important for this reason: you can't fascinate anyone with your writing until you get them to read the manuscript. The query letter's purpose is just that. It's a sales tool and it has more in common with copy writing than novelism. It's taken me over a year to develop queries that elicit a positive response. Since editors and agents receive hundreds of queries, they look for something special. That's where you can mention that you were published (without providing a value judgement on it).
If you get their attention and "intrigue" them (a currently popular word) with a query, they'll ask to read sample chapters of your work. Pay attention to whether they want them in sequence (like the first 3 or 5), or whenther you get to pick them.
Sometimes they'll ask for a synopsis. That tells them you have a complete story and know how to end it. But I've never heard of anyone wanting a synopsis longer than three single-spaced pages. I can't image who write the guideline you mentioned. If you get submission requirements from one of the Writers Digest books or that of Jeff Herman, or look at Writers Market, or go to a web page, they will sometimes give you guidelines for a synopsis. If they just say "synopsis," do a concise one. Like the query letter, that takes a lot of work. If you have a critique group, send the synopsis around. It needs the same kind of objective help that the writing itself needs. By the way, the synopsis needs to say how many words are in the manuscript.
Which brings up the last point. You'll really need to wow them with a 220,000 word manuscript, even in mainstream or literary fiction. As to categorization, think about where you'd put it in the bookstore if you had the choice. Who would be most likely to pull it off the shelf and leaf through it? That what the categories are all about. Bookstores need to know which section to place a volume, so the distributors require a category and of course, so do the publishers. A trip to the Barnes & Noble, or your favorite independent, will give you a start.
Good luck. It's a tough grind, so keep the faith.
Bob Kellogg
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Re: The synopsis |
Author: Mary M. (---.ral4.raleigh.intrex.net)
Date: 01-08-02 07:07
Wasn't The Thornbirds classified as historical fiction?
And don't be so intimidated by the query and submission process or you will be eaten alive. Really! Try to sustain emotional control of your project.
The query should be a single page and include your book's genre and plot, plus its market competition and marketing plan, as well as your bio -- what qualifies you to write this book, your published work, etc. I recommend you access the following sites for query, synopsis samples:
(1) sfwa.org/writing/query.htm
(2) hollylisle.com/fm/articles/agent2.html
(3) rosenberggroup.com
Good luck!
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Re: The synopsis and LSF |
Author: Lord Duff (---.cg.shawcable.net)
Date: 01-08-02 12:00
I'd advise you to seek out agents and publishers that will actually read your writing, as opposed to those who set up just one more obstacle to getting published by demanding that you first send a query. The query is a scam that benefits agents and publishers but does not benefit writers. A lot of people on this board, as well meaning as most of them are, play the query game without realizing how anti-writer the query system really is. The only way to judge someone's writing is to actually read it so target your submissions to those who will take a synopsis and sample chapters. There are still plenty of agents and publiishers who will accept a synopsis and sample chapters. If they like that they'll very likely ask to see the entire manuscript and then you're on your way.
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Re: The synopsis and LSF |
Author: Gary Kessler (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date: 01-08-02 15:23
On "the query letter is a scam": Do you have the vaguest notion how many opportunities for publishing hit an acquistions editor on a given day and in how many forms (unsolicited mss, phone calls, e-mails, query letters, literary agent visits, cold-call approaches at the fruit counter in the supermarket)? Those who think the acquisition editor should zip directly to an evaluation of the manuscript (and remember here that only fiction is expected to be finished before contracted), has automatically drastically--in large percentage numbers--cut down on the number of physically possible opportunities an author has to get his/her book in front of an acquisitions editor. We must not try to think we're the only ones that have a real job. The query letter is NOT an author-unfriendly mechanism--and it does weed out a whole lot of basically illiterate people so that the process can hone in on the real writers.
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Re: The synopsis and LSF |
Author: Gary Kessler (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date: 01-08-02 15:45
And Furthermore, the extent to which the query letter was an invention of the publishing industry illustrates not an industry "scam" to punish authors but an attempt to give authors the best, most equitable (based on demonstrated writing talent) possible access to being published. There were no query letters in Emily Dickinson's day. It's not the publishying industry's fault that literacy rates went up, as did access to personal free time, as did the freeing of thought from putting rod A into slot B followed by putting rod A into slot B to the glories of personal contemplation and expression. If acquisition editors don't have enough time to read and fully cogitate on every manuscript that crosses their transom, that's a function of the number of manuscripts plunking on their floor, not on their attitude toward creative writing. So, the query letter system is an outgrowth of increased authoring, not of some publishing industry devious plot. You want to get away with the query letter system? Go out and and maim your competition for attention.
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Re: The synopsis and LSF and Gary Kessler |
Author: Art Kincaid (---.ab.tac.net)
Date: 01-08-02 18:25
I can't agree with you, I think it is an obstacle that works against the writer and we all know there's enough of those in a writer's path already. Editors and agents need to keep in mind that without written work they have no publishing industry, their bread and butter. They need the writer at least as much as the writer needs them. I also find your comments, implied if not actually written, about writer's being largely hacks and no talent people, to be odious and elistist. What great works of literature have you written, smart guy?
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Re: The synopsis and LSF and Gary Kessler |
Author: Gary Kessler (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date: 01-08-02 19:40
I don't believe I have at any time or in any form said that writers were "largely hacks and no talent people." I thought I made clear in this particular string that there are more people writing now because both the literacy rate and the access to free time (for thought and writing) has gone up. There probably are, in fact, many more people whose talent is below the publishing level writing these days, but that's just because our modern world permits a great deal more people to try their hands at writing than a century ago--the proportion of brilliant writers to mediocre writers probably hasn't changed all the much. I have written no great works of literature. I'm not participating in this discussion forum on the basis of any claims to great writing ability but because I think that I can shed some light on questions and concerns writers have on the basis of my experience within the publishing industry. I did--and do--think that comments on this string were myopic concerning the origin and purpose of (and blame for) the query letter. And I continue to hold that, sans the query letter mechanism at this stage, a far, far greater number of manuscripts than in years past would have to remain rejected outright or in slush piles unreviewed because today's volume of offerings makes it physically impossible for agents and publishers to get to the manuscripts that most likely meet their criteria without an intervening step. I also continue to contend that the volume of submissions, not the devious schemes of agents and publishers have led to this mechanism. Authors who can write good, focused novels can also write good, focused query letters and synopses.
I would hope that in the future you could carry your discussions without personal attacks.
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Re: The synopsis and LSF and Gary Kessler |
Author: Victoria Strauss (---.ne.mediaone.net)
Date: 01-08-02 20:55
Gary, don't waste words on this guy--it's our resident ghost, the haunted literary agent, whom we cannot seem to exorcise, no matter what we do. His beef against query letters is well known and (I hope) unanimously disregarded.
- Victoria
--------------------------------------------------------
Victoria Strauss
THE GARDEN OF THE STONE (HarperCollins Eos)
Homepage: http://www.victoriastrauss.com
Writer Beware: http://www.sfwa.org/beware
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Re: The synopsis and LSF and Gary Kessler |
Author: A.C. Crispin (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 01-09-02 12:03
Yeah, good old Don Ray Jr., who snares clients by promulgating The Myth of Entitlement to clueless writers. The myth says that "If you write, you DESERVE to be published."
That myth is choking the internet, agent offices, and publishing houses with submissions these days. It's always been true that most people who want to write publishable material (especially fiction) can't. Anyone who has ever read an editorial slushpile, as I have, knows that most people can't write for sour apples.
If I sound grumpy, it's because Don Ray, Jr. actually does harm promulgating The Entitlement Myth. If it weren't for The Myth there wouldn't be so many hapless writers getting scammed out of their hard-earned money by agents like Kelly O'Donnell and her ilk.
-Ann C. Crispin
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Re: The synopsis and LSF and Gary Kessler |
Author: Wallace Cass (---.stures.iastate.edu)
Date: 01-09-02 13:36
Hi everyone,
I see query letters and synopses as necessary tools for the writer. To me, the Query shows that the writer has a coherent idea and that they can present it in a clear and concise manner. In my opinion, the Synopsis shows not only that the writer has a complete story, but that they have the organizational skills necessary to take a story from beginning to middle to end.
I won't say that I totally like writing queries and synopses. In fact, the first time I had to write them, I found them terrifying because I had the story completed before hand. But with any new skill, once you get past the initial terror and practice at it, you will get better at them.
The Myth of Entitlement? I won't say that I don't find that an attractive prospect, but at the same time it is totally unrealistic to expect that since someone writes they should automatically deserve to be published. This is a learning process and no one should expect to make a solid hit the first time out of the gate. Nothing worth doing is easy.
Wallace
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Re: The synopsis and LSF and AC Crispin |
Author: Lord Duff (---.cg.shawcable.net)
Date: 01-09-02 14:54
I am not Don Ray, thanks very much. Why is it that as soon as a different point of view is presented here, people start howling imposter and fake identity? Just accept the fact that there are different points of view besides your own. I stand by my earlier comments. A writer has a much better chance at getting published if they send their work to someone that will actually read it, i.e. sample chapters and synopsis. I did not say writers have a God given right to be published, that bit of rhetoric came from someone else...you perhaps?
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Re: The synopsis and LSF and AC Crispin |
Author: ACCrispin (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 01-09-02 15:37
Don Ray, Jr. claims every writer has the "right" to be published. It's on his website.
Or used to be. Does he still have one?
-Ann C. Crispin
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Re: to LD |
Author: Gary Kessler (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date: 01-09-02 16:33
I didn't get the impression Ann's posting was directed at you. But, of course, since you undoubtedly also aren't someone named "Lord Duff" it's a little hard to take you as a real person.
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Re: to LD and differences of opinion |
Author: Ralph Van Doren (---.ab.tac.net)
Date: 01-09-02 17:56
I check this board out from time to time and, while I like it enough to keep it on my personal radar of webistes fit to visit, I've often wondered why some people on here, like the person that posted right above me for example, feel it's okay to trash someone else just because they have a different point of view. That's all this long thread is, a difference of opinion, and that certainly doesn't warrant questioning someone's motives or identity, in my view. I'm also curious as to why you, Gary Kessler, feel it's okay to blanket this board with your postings, thereby shoving some other people out. There used to be a lot of good people posting here that don't seem to visit here anymore, like Mike Flashner and Norman and Victor Miller and Valerie Moreau. Where have all the good ones gone?
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Re: to LD and differences of opinion |
Author: Gary Kessler (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date: 01-09-02 18:04
Apparently "all the good ones" just keep changing the names they hide behind like you, Ralph/Brent, and keep coming back on to flame people for no particular reason. Wasn't aware that the discussion board could only take a certain number of postings and that folks could be "shoved off" from posting. Interesting concept.
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Re: to LD and differences of opinion |
Author: Ralph Van Doren (---.ab.tac.net)
Date: 01-09-02 20:00
Haven't been here much lately, as I said before your rude and childish post, but I'm already familiar with your kindergarten trick of questioning someone's identity whenever someone doesn't agree with you. I can assure you I am who I say. Like I said, how did we get stuck with an overbearing and negative person such as you when there used to be so many good people posting here?
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Time Out |
Author: Hamish (WritersNet) (144.138.52.---)
Date: 01-09-02 20:40
Let's just agree to disagree and move on...
There is plenty of room for diverse and discordant opinion but the spats don't increase anyone's writing knowledge.
Let's stay on topic and save the energy that goes into these clashes for our creative endeavors.
Try and ignore the stuff that's flammable. It's just words on a discussion forum, afterall. I believe the old expression - mentioned in another thread - is: "Sticks and stones will break my bones but names can never hurt me."
Now, I am at playground level...:-)
Cheers
Hamish
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Re: Time Out |
Author: Julie (---.nas1.milwaukee1.wi.us.da.qwest.net)
Date: 01-09-02 22:20
Hello, my name is Julie.
I am a student in Sacremento California and i was looking for an e-mail adress of the author Phillis Naylor because I am doing a report on her and part of the report is to ask her a couple questions (if posible to get a hold of her). So if you have any information on her e-mail adress please contact me at wildcat9452@msn.com. Thank you
-Julie
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Re: Finding someone to read it |
Author: Bob Kellogg (---.san.rr.com)
Date: 01-10-02 12:18
Who could possibly object to the principle of getting the appropriate editor to read our manuscript? That's why we send stuff out.
The point of discussion here is: what is the best way to find that appropriate reader?
Here are the reasons I send a query letter:
1. It's cheaper and quicker to send a one-page query letter and SASE.
2. I immediately (well, maybe not immediately) find out whether they like my idea. If they don't like my idea, it doesn't matter how good my writing is. (It is almost always quicker, though. Typically an agent claims to repond in something like "1 month for queries, 3 months for manuscripts.")
3. The vast majority of editors and agents request it. I prefer to create a feeling of good will in my target.
4. If someone requests sample chapters after getting my query, I know they're going to read them, and not just toss them in the slush pile for an intern to filter. (I always letter "requested material" on the package.)
5. Many agents and publisher won't accept multiple submissions. That means manuscripts, not queries or sample chapters. I can shorten the process by sending multiple queries.
If someone wants me to send the complete manuscript without going through the query process, I pass. The chances of finding a match between my work and someone who loves and can publish it are so slim that I try to reduce the odds as much as possible. I only take the time to print my manuscript and go to the expense of mailing it when an editor has first asked for sample chapters.
The bad part of this method is that it means I have to write a query letter. As I said above, it's more an exercise in salesmanship than in creating literature.
Bob K.
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Re: Finding someone to read it:Bob |
Author: Brad Maier (---.cg.shawcable.net)
Date: 01-10-02 14:30
I see where you're coming from and, by the looks of some of the other postings on this long and sometimes nasty thread, I'd say most people favor queries and don't mind sending them out. Myself, I'd rather go right to the meat of the matter so I target my submissions to editors and agents that are willing to accept a synopsis and sample chapters right away. There are quite a few of those still around too, not everyone has climbed onto the query bandwagon.The important thing is that I don't force my work on someone who wants a query letter first, thereby guaranteeing myself an abrupt rejection. I send a synopsis and sample chapters only to those who've indicated a willingness to accept them.
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Re: "The Query, and more stories" |
Author: nic.h (---.prem.tmns.net.au)
Date: 01-10-02 19:05
I had no idea this whole query letter concept was so provocative. It's amazing how something as inane as a 250 word letter can stimulate such vitriol.
Anyway, I don't think it's any big deal. I aim in the letter to tell the "truth"** and keep it short, which is hopefully also what I've done in the ms, thus providing evidence I can do it. Like Bob said (above), it's basically a shortcut for all parties, including the writer.
Now I have a tricky one that I hope you can help me with...
I have a manuscript for a novel (my first) that, conceptually, seems to be very marketable (lots of positive responses from queries over the years) but has never really (even in my mind) quite accomplished the standard I believe it/I should. In other words, I'm a much better writer now, but can't seem to bring the first novel up to that level, no matter what I do. It's definitely better than what it was the first time it was rejected, and has benefited from an editing scholarship I received at the bequest of the Australian Government, and initial queries since Christmas have already given me a four for four result for requests for the first three chapters, which I have duly submitted.
OK, so far so good. The problem is, I still don't think it's as good as it could be, but also know deep down somewhere scary, that I don't think I can fix it. Not yet, and probably not for a long time. Obviously if a publisher wants it, then I'm going to submit, but if I know all this, how hard should I push? It's taken five years, on and off, to get it to this (I think) publishable standard, so I'm reluctant to just give up and shove it into a drawer somewhere for a few years. On the other hand, if it does get published, after more hard work, time and money, I'm not all that sure it's something I'd be especially proud of (not for content reasons - purely from a writing craft persepective). But I'd be a published author, and it would be my first time.
The next part of the problem is that I'm 50,000 words into Number Two. And loving it. I've written this in around six months, and everyone who sees it (writer friends, as well as "normal" people) love it. They're all keen for Number One, but they all LOVE Number Two. Problem is it's very selective in it's audience. Probably exclusively Australian in tone and interest, and perhaps even a Young Adult work, although it wasn't my intention. That all means a much smaller market, i.e. fewer publishers, agents, and readers to choose from, and even then, for the same reasons, a long shot again.
So, Number One is publishable largely because its subject is so marketable but it's tone is not very *literary* (can't think of a better word), while Two is *literary* and fun, but not very publishable.
Should I go both guns? Submit one in front of the other - if so in which order? Aim at different markets/countries? Drop Number One (ouch)? The choices are endless. What do you think?
** (Sorry, too many years of studying postmodern theory to use that word without modification.)
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Re: "The Query, and working oneself into a la |
Author: Brad Maier (---.cg.shawcable.net)
Date: 01-10-02 21:59
I had to laugh at some of your lines because I think you're worrying about this far too much. Step back and look at what you've done. Four for four on queries with novel #1 with a good crack of at least one of those turning into a request for the entire manuscript, and now novel #2-which you admit you love writing and isn't that a large part of the battle right there?-is getting rave reviews from people who've read it! That I should have such problems! Keep sending samples and queries out for both works and never mind writing or not writing something because it has a big market or it doesn't. By writing about whatever you feel good about you'll end up where you want to be and if you start censoring yourself to suit the market you'll soon end up in difficulty. Good luck!
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Re: "The Query, and working oneself into a la |
Author: Victoria Strauss (---.ne.mediaone.net)
Date: 01-11-02 08:27
Guys: The query letter question is NOT provocative. It's not even a question. What's happening here is that one crackpot who likes to make trouble on this board is advocating a completely unprofessional, personal theory about query letters, and now everyone is soul-searching about the value of the process. This is a waste of time. Query letters are a UNIVERSALLY ACCEPTED part of the submissions process. Without one, you will get nowhere. Trust me--this is not an issue that needs discussion.
- Victoria
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Victoria Strauss
THE GARDEN OF THE STONE (HarperCollins Eos)
Homepage: http://www.victoriastrauss.com
Writer Beware: http://www.sfwa.org/beware
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Re: "The Query, and more than one way of doin |
Author: Brad Maier (---.cg.shawcable.net)
Date: 01-11-02 14:08
It's unfortunate that you insist that sending a query letter out is the only way to do this. It's not. I also find it interesting that because someone-and you don't say who-thinks otherwise, you simply label them "a crackpot." Doesn't say much about your tolerance for another opinion, does it? I'm not going to muck around with this and get dragged into a long and ugly thread, like some people above us did. Suffice it to say that among my writing friends-four in all-none of them, including me, use query letters. We all submit to editors and agents willing to actually read our work, i.e. a synopsis and sample chapters, and yes, we are all "getting somewhere" with this approach. None of us are household names but all of us have several publishing credits each. Now, perhaps we could all go on to something else.
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Re: "The Query, and more than one way of doin |
Author: Gary Kessler (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date: 01-11-02 15:57
Isn't the real bottom line just to try to find out how the targeted agent or publisher prefers to be approached and then use that approach, if possible? This could be a variety of means.
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Re: "The Query, and more than one way of doin |
Author: Benjamin (---.MAD-P1.adsl.jazztelbone.net)
Date: 01-11-02 18:17
What happened to reading things because you enjoyed them, not because they´re good? Writing is about taking the reader to a different place, with words only. Sure, it needs to be done properly, within the rules of grammer and composition. But, I truly believe that people who write, DO deserve to be published. It may take years...we all know the stories of great novels being turned down 100 times before being found right?
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Re: "The Query, and more than one way of doin |
Author: nic.h (---.prem.tmns.net.au)
Date: 01-11-02 20:31
Look. It really doesn't matter what "we" think. It only matters what works. It's all very well to extrapolate about entitlement myths and supposed publishing "scams" but it's all bollocks at the end of the day if your voice is never heard. If you're never acually read.
The thing is, no single respected editor/agent/publisher whose opinion I've read or heard has rejected work BECAUSE it began with a (good) query, but many have rejected work because it DIDN'T.
So it's a personal call, but in this challenging business of slim odds, I suggest that new writers, at least, go with the strongest field. A good query works. Period.
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A very old query letter :-) |
Author: Maggie (---.bigchalk.com)
Date: 02-14-02 14:14
The following query letter was written by an aspiring authoress' doting papa, many years ago:
SIR,
I have in my possession a manuscript novel, comprising 3 vols, about the length of Miss Burney's Evelina. As I am well aware of what consequence it is that a work of this sort shd make its first appearance under a respectable name, I apply to you. I shall be much obliged therefore if you will inform me whether you choose to be concerned in it, what will be the expense of publishing it at the author's risk, and what you will venture to advance for the property of it, if on perusal it is approved of. Should you give any encouragement, I will send you the work.
I am, Sir, your humble Servant,
GEORGE AUSTEN
Steventon, near Overton, Hants 1st Nov. 1797
The book in question, btw, is Pride and Prejudice, at the time called First Impressions. The manuscript was rejected by return post. A revised and renamed version was finally published in 1813 and has never been out of print since.
You may notice that Mr. Austen offered to pledge the funds to have the book published. In those days it was not uncommon for a writer to pledge their own funds to cover the publisher's expenses should a book fail to sell sufficient copies. Jane Austen's first book to be published, Sense and Sensibility, was published thus, but was so successful that the publisher purchased the copyright of Pride and Prejudice for 150 pounds, not a top amount for a writer in those days, but still three times Jane Austen's yearly allowance.
The whole episode is a testament to the power of self-editing and hanging in there, if you really believe in the work! But I'm not suggesting that one pay to publish. ;-)
Maggie
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