Cheesy books I love |
Author: Kate B. (---.mmg.pitt.edu)
Date: 07-09-08 14:24
When I was younger I read A LOT of an author named Grace Livingston Hill. She was a Christian romance author from the 30's.
I picked up one of her books this weekend and really noticed, for the first time, how many cardinal rules of writing she breaks. I know that there's a huge era difference but here's a few:
She spends three pages describing all of the events of the book to a secondary character. Three pages! And then she does it again less than a chapter later. Nothing new for the reader...just a rehash.
I found the word "keen" three times in five lines.
Get me started on dialog tags....
Or how about the use of coincidence...which happens frequently. The train was just late and that's how they managed to bump into one another.
Wildly un-PC. To the point that I would NEVER recommend this book to an African American woman.
AND YET...I read these things like crazy. She has over a hundred titles and I must have 40 or more of them. I was the same way about VC Andrews (before her death, when they were really twisted)...and she breaks a lot of rules, too.
Do you have a book or author that you love despite all of the things that kind of make you cringe in them?
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Ro Lefwyn (---.lnngmi.dedicated.static.tds.net)
Date: 07-09-08 14:52
I used to love VC Andrews. Flowers in the Attic series was like some ghastly tale told around the fire back in thd day.
I guess for me it's Jean Auel, and her horny cave people. Used to love them. I can't read them now, knowing what I know now. Horrible, pages and pages of descriptive detailson, horrible sex dialog (masterful *****...please) head hopping, predictable dramas that went on for chapters that could have been resolved with three words, too much assumption, interuption of the narrative to go off on some 10 page description of a plant, animal or peice of clothing (or to have sex that would put any porn star to shame) . Long pages of technical jarg-on-an-on where Auel attempts to teach the reader how to start a fire, cyr mastadon hide ... or make a tea without ever cluing the reader in about what such leafs are known as now.
After years passed the main character began to be nauseating--too hero, too perfect, too pretty, responsible for every small step that early man made--she discovered fire, arrows, spears, bows, cutlery,soap, sewing, how to domestic varied animals and had more medical expertise than any modern doctor, she was Carl Sagan, Cher, Blondie, Steven Hawkings, Florence Nightinggale, Einstein and Plato all rolled into one.
A disgustingly modest about it too. And some what morbid and self pitying...
shudder. But I once did like them...
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Ro Lefwyn (---.lnngmi.dedicated.static.tds.net)
Date: 07-09-08 14:53
the VC Andrew books did get a bit ditzy after she died, didn't they?
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: the cat came back (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date: 07-09-08 14:54
I once laughed myself to sleep each night after reading a horrible, horrible book by Belva Plain. I enjoyed it so much that I ran right out and bought another one, but she had improved just enough that it was no longer funny.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Kate B. (---.mmg.pitt.edu)
Date: 07-09-08 15:10
LOL Ro...now, I've gotta read an Auel!
I think what happened with VC Andrew's "estate" was that she had a readership and they didn't want to travel too far from that. Yet her readership expected child abuse, incest, and characters you HATE. Soften it up and it's boring. Keep it what it has been and it's sick. They should have just left her name alone, I think.
Hey Cat! I have a Belva Plain sitting on my shelf right now that I've never opened. The book just never called to me...but I may have to try it now. See if it's the funny variety.
Sometimes I have to read a cheesy book. It gives me hope that I'll be published someday. If I just read Vonnegut and Austen and Shaara, I'll never think I'm good enough!
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: DeAnna Cameron (---.oc.oc.cox.net)
Date: 07-09-08 15:25
Ah, VC Andrews. Such memories. Flowers in the Attic was my first cheesy novel (8th grade?).
Now I turn to Elizabeth Peters' Amelia Peabody series. Ever hear of it? Very fun.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Xavier Onassis (---.dhcp.embarqhsd.net)
Date: 07-09-08 18:06
I used to love The Godfather. Read it like four times as a kid. Also Bukowski, who I thought was a genius when I was a teenager. Ditto Henry Miller.
I haven't tried to re-read the Godfather lately but I'm sure it's cringetastic.
Henry Miller and Bukowski both bore me to tears at this point.
XO
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: A.L. Sirois (---.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
Date: 07-09-08 18:16
Well, some people think Stephen King is cheesy, but I usually enjoy his stuff very much.
And I've read a load of science fiction, including a lot of stuff even I know is cheesy! But I don't care! I'll still read Edgar Rice Burroughs and/or Edmond Hamilton. I do skim a lot more than I used to, though... :-) I get bored with the lame characterization. But adventure? They present lots of that!
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Rogue Mutt (---.com)
Date: 07-10-08 08:57
There was a certain action/adventure series I read as a kid that when I reread them last year I discovered how terribly written the books were. Not just that the stories were stupid or the style plain, but things like spelling errors and characters changing names within the same book. It's amazing the kind of crap that gets put out there for mass consumption.
BTW, I read "The Godfather" a couple months ago. It really is cringetastic; I can't believe they were able to make a great movie from that.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Keith . (---.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com)
Date: 07-10-08 10:36
I loved "The Godfather" as a kid. I swiped it from Dad's bookcase because I was too young to read it. One of my very, very favorites. I've never picked it up as an adult (or teen for that matter) for fear it would spoil the memories.
I worked at a B. Dalton in High School. We'd tear covers for return credit and got to keep tons of coverless books. Most were complete crap but many fun to read. I remember a chop-socky detective story that was fun-Giri, or something like that. The best/worst was a terrorist yarn where the bad guy escaped by swiming to a waiting ship, only to get eaten by a shark at the last moment! Bad, bad bad. But fun.
km
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Sapphire Savvy (76.251.180.---)
Date: 07-10-08 10:44
ROFL @ Ro and agreeing with everything she said...I used to love VC Andrews and Auel till Auel became some sort of romance/porn writer... Sometimes I read Stephen King and also I consider Harry Potter pretty cheesy, but I love the stuph.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Kate B. (---.mmg.pitt.edu)
Date: 07-10-08 11:02
Hey! I LOVE Mario Puzo! I read The Fortunate Pilgrim after reading The Godfather and I couldn’t put it down. Definitely a cringe-worthy author that I love.
King, for me is wonderful and terrible all in one sitting. He starts a novel like no one else. The tension is great and the mystery keeps me reading. Then something like 300 pages in all of the tension dissolves and it just becomes tedious. But by then, I’m 300 pages in and I’m not stopping. The only author that made me put down a book after I was more than halfway through is Ann Rice.
I am such a Potter fan, Sapphire. In the first book I kept wondering, “How is she getting away with all the cheese?” But I was hooked by book three and I never looked back. I’ve heard lots of people who didn’t like her style of writing but for me Rowling was always about the plot.
I’m going to add another cheesy author I love. Young adult author LJ Smith writes the best/worst stuff I’ve ever read. If she hangs out here…I’m so sorry, girl. But I BUY and READ as much of her stuff as I can get my hands on. It’s like eating bonbons.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Patrick Edwards (63.240.53.---)
Date: 07-10-08 11:06
Wildly un-PC. To the point that I would NEVER recommend this book to an African American woman.
Kate B, IMO, you should never NOT recommend something to someone because of "un-PCness." If it's a good book/good story, many of us can put aside our "kill thoughts" (:)!) and read through.
Now, it'll be good to add--without giving too much away--that it's "rather un-PC with regards to you people"--KIDDING! Well, only about that last line. I think it's okay to just add it's rather harsh. One way we (any one on the victim end of un-PCness) deal with that is by seeing the ignorance behind the statements/actions. OR even understanding where the statements/actions come from. And, besides, some statements that are considered un-PC are true (not as a 100% whole of course), and we're [for the most part] able to keep an objective mind.
---
That being said, A.L. Sirois, i'm with you about Stephen King. Just the other day, I had a feeling come over me. It was a "I want to be involved in one of Stephen King's story right now." From time to time, I get those urges to read one of his tales...even a repeat viewing.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Kate B. (---.mmg.pitt.edu)
Date: 07-10-08 11:23
I don't know, Patrick. Every African-American character is a loyal maid or butler and she actually writes out the dialect. And uses the term "darky" to describe them. Same for the Irish. It's not in every book and it's apt to the era, but still....
According to Hill, a proper woman knows how to cook and would NEVER chew gum or smoke or dance or drink. I gave one of her books to my room mate in college and she nearly killed me ("What do you SEE in these things?!?")
But I get your point. I would hate it if I missed out on a great book because someone didn't want to recommend it to a feminist.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Xavier Onassis (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: 07-10-08 11:41
I would hate it if I missed out on a great book because someone didn't want to recommend it to a feminist.
For me, Love in the Time of Cholera fits this bill. I was reveling in every purple page of it, right up until the end. At the end, the secretary is walking home at night and gets raped, which she enjoys. She then spends many sleepless hours longing for another similar encounter. OUCH.
XO
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Patrick Edwards (63.240.53.---)
Date: 07-10-08 12:16
I see what you mean, though. But I will say this: Stephen King and Quentin Tarantino uses ni**er (can't remember if word sneaks past the censors :)) frequently, but it works because that's the story they're telling. I will say, however, that I do hear it when I read it, and there's a brief pause in my flow, but I move on.
The Wanderers. One of my favorite movies of all time, but it always amazes me that I could love a movie that so freely speaks against the black folks (in a way). But I think it goes back to what I said up above about the "ignorance" of the speaker AND the relevance to that particular story. Without the race talk (especially considering it's from all sides), the movie wouldn't be the movie it was/is, so...
By the way, for those not in the know, The Wanderers is an Italian gang whose main foe in the flick is a Black gang called the Del Bombers. But they have Asian gangs (who are karate experts), deaf mute gangs (seriously), and A-hole fathers. And the music is off-the-hook. I actually have the soundtrack (can listen to it forever and always) and the book (has a slightly different feel than the movie, and I'd actually suggest seeing the movie first). Check it out.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Patrick Edwards (63.240.53.---)
Date: 07-10-08 12:25
For me, Love in the Time of Cholera fits this bill. I was reveling in every purple page of it, right up until the end. At the end, the secretary is walking home at night and gets raped, which she enjoys. She then spends many sleepless hours longing for another similar encounter. OUCH.
Not to be insensitive or rude or a-holian, but I've always wondered about the whole thing of rape. I mean, I know it is one of the most despicable things one person can do to another; that there's a tough road from coming back from it in most cases, but I wonder if some women (assuming a woman is being raped) enjoy it. I mean, I can imagine that some do, but I wonder if it's more than I can fathom. Whatever the case, please do not take this as an "It's okay to do it because she might like it," because it's not that at all. "No means no" in my book (and I believe the vast majority of humans' book), but since the subject was brought up...
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Xavier Onassis (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: 07-10-08 12:31
Patrick
I highly doubt anybody enjoys being raped. Even those who have "rape fantasies," I'd be willing to bet, would not enjoy the real thing. JMO.
XO
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Kate B. (---.mmg.pitt.edu)
Date: 07-10-08 13:35
My partner and I have discussed this Patrick. We've both read in psychology books that girls who are being molested have sometimes experienced a pleasurable physical reaction. This is even more traumatic for the victim because it leads to the mentality that she is as bad as the molester (or rapist), that she was leading him on in some way, or that she deserves what she gets. It associates orgasm or pleasure around sex with something dirty (as if we need help with that!) and can mess up a woman's sex life for the rest of her life.
I don't think that the word "enjoy" is the right descriptive for the experience. It must be a very confusing thing to deal with, on top of the experience of rape or molestation.
Of course, this is all based on reading. I might be repeating BS.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Sapphire Savvy (76.251.180.---)
Date: 07-10-08 14:08
On the opposite end, I wouldn't recommend "The Temple of My Familiar" by Alice Walker to anyone white. It is an endless and uninteresting rant about how they cannot create, only destroy, and every last one of them commits evil. A terrible book and a thin excuse for racist commentary.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Patrick Edwards (63.240.53.---)
Date: 07-10-08 18:01
I'll check that one out, Sapphire, but I have to believe that it's coming from a perspective (or many perspectives, depending on the characters) that that it is the belief. I'm of the belief that it's okay for someone to read something about one's perceived self (or, in general, about one's narrowed group)...even if in story.
Though not completely on the same level, I kinda-sorta liken it to how we blacks will read "white" magazines (the ones that don't specifically cater to us, and geared towards a white audience), but also read those magazines geared specifically for us (Ebony, Jet, King, etc.). But the same cannot be said for whites and what they read. (E.g., once I worked for this guy in a past ad agency who received an Ebony in the mail and asked me whether I wanted it. I said "Of course," but then added, "You don't want it?", and he said something along the line of "What for?" and laughed. This is in an ad agency! Where you have to deal with the black audience at some point, right?)
Of course, the difference is that those magazines not [primarily] geared towards a black audience (IMO: Vogue, People, Cosmo, etc.) aren't defined as "for the white person"; it just is.
Over time, we've (meaning blacks/other minorities) have had to deal with not learning our history in school (other than in February). So if we're not learning our history, then it's a cinch that most "others" were/are not either. That being said, perhaps it's good to read about an extreme point of view...even if it's just "fiction." Besides, most [sane] folks realize that not everybody thinks or does one thing, but when that particular perspective is explained, one has to say to themselves, "How did that person come to believe that?" And it most certainly goes both ways. When I see a black person who's not comfortable around other black folks, I don't condemn them; I just believe there's a reason for that behavior, whether it's they grew up in a predominantly white community (culturally different, of course) and are just not immediately comfortable because being around a number of blacks is a foreign experience. Sometimes, on the street, I'll see a white woman (black women do this a lot, too) clutch her purse when she sees me (I could be dressed to the nines with slacks and dress shoes on--doesn't matter) and many times I'll just think to myself "a black dude might've snatched her purse before," so there's a reference point for her other than the news.
Basically, I'm of the belief that we can all learn something (and enjoy to a point) from everything we lay our eyes and ears and hearts and minds on. Everything.
Sorry for the rant. it probably doesn't make a whole lotta sense (I'm sure if I do read back, I'm gonna utter a couple of "WTF?"s), but I refuse to go back in and edit. I have too much of that to do anyway.
:)
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Lily (---.net)
Date: 07-10-08 19:03
"My partner and I have discussed this Patrick. We've both read in psychology books that girls who are being molested have sometimes experienced a pleasurable physical reaction."
I was about fourteen at the time, walking home from the cinema. A group of boys approached towards me. As they passed by--and I stayed as close to the side of a building as I could to give them room--one of them reached out and touched my breast.
His hand felt cold. I don't know why it triggered the reaction that it did. The unexpectedness of it, perhaps? The forbidden nature? Needless to say, I never told anyone about it. I didn't feel like a victim. I felt like a conspirator. Yet violated at the same time, confused and angry. This may be why so many sexual assaults are never reported?
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: leslee (---.lsl-la.com)
Date: 07-10-08 19:09
"I highly doubt anybody enjoys being raped. Even those who have "rape fantasies," I'd be willing to bet, would not enjoy the real thing"
I remember many years ago reading an article in Ms. Magazine on this subject. The writer said this was the definition of a woman's rape fantasy:
Robert Redford won't take no for an answer.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Sapphire Savvy (76.251.180.---)
Date: 07-11-08 09:53
Well, take a look at the book, Patrick. It barely even had (didn't have) a plot. But whites pick up a lot of literature by other races: Alice Walker is a case in point, so is Amy Tan, Salmon Rushdie, etc. Walk through your local bookstore: there often still is a seperate "African-American" section, but on the mainstream shelves you can find all kinds of experiences: Islamic, Jewish, African, gay and lebian, etc.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Patrick Edwards (63.240.53.---)
Date: 07-11-08 09:54
Needless to say, I never told anyone about it. I didn't feel like a victim. I felt like a conspirator. Yet violated at the same time, confused and angry.
Lily, is the reason you felt like a conspirator because you didn't tell anyone? Also, when you say "cold," do you mean a physical cold? Or a "cold chill" (like the evil in Conan the Barbarian books - not making light; it's the best sense of evil I could come up with)?
And, BTW, I'm sorry that happened to you.
----
P.S. That's a funny Robert Redford story, leslee :) And wouldn't it be interesting to find out true statistics of men being raped by women. There has to be some cases of this, doesn't it? As a male, I don't think I'd mind being raped [by a woman], unless of course, she refuses to use a condom, because then I'd think that'd be the real reason for the abuse, not her animal attraction to me. Though, after writing that, I rescind my earlier wonderment about women enjoying said act, because it's a lot different for a woman to be forced to have something squeeze into them as opposed to a man having a woman envelop him.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Lily (---.net)
Date: 07-11-08 14:13
"Lily, is the reason you felt like a conspirator because you didn't tell anyone?"
More because of *why* I didn't tell. I felt guilty about my reaction. I thought it was so unnatural. You have to remember, it was the first time I'd been touched in a sexual way.
"Also, when you say "cold," do you mean a physical cold?"
Yes.
I felt intimidated. There were about 4 or 5 guys, and they were older than me. I also felt cheap, singled out. I thought they wouldn't have dared treat any other female in that way, that I must look like a slut. Therefore, it was really my fault. I shouldn't have been out alone, at that time of night. I should have been wearing school uniform...on and on it went. Typical victim guilt.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Patrick Edwards (63.240.53.---)
Date: 07-11-08 14:24
Wow. :(
That's way interesting. Amazing how someone can turn the situation around like that. There's probably a ton of traumatized women out there, because just the fact that we sometimes (I'm talking with a date or something) continue grabbing in the hopes that she doesn't really want us to stop (just wants us to slow down), or in the hopes that we can hit a spot that will turn the tide in our favor (on a consensual level, of course). Until we hear that definite "No" or feel that smack. That woman could feel mad violated, too--as much as you (and others) have felt in those stranger situations.
And not to dig, my only confusion was you never said you enjoyed the touch--but I'm guessing the cold touch was a positive [tingly, lustful] energy?
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Lily (---.net)
Date: 07-11-08 14:36
"And not to dig, my only confusion was you never said you enjoyed the touch--but I'm guessing the cold touch was a positive [tingly, lustful] energy?"
Oh yeah, the world really did spin around me. :-)
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Beautiful Loser (---.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)
Date: 07-11-08 14:41
I'm so sorry that this happened to you, Lily.
It must have been devastating for you not to tell anyone.
I hope you've talked to professionals to help you deal with this.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Kate B. (---.mmg.pitt.edu)
Date: 07-11-08 15:10
I understand that Lily.
In elementary school and part of Jr. High I was followed around by a group of guys who liked to touch me inappropriately. I thought it was my fault and while I didn't like the touching, I was kind of lonely and didn't like to admit that I liked the attention. I'd never had a boy or girl-friend and had never been touched in any way. So I didn't tell my parents for something like three years, after the worst of it had waned.
I always had a queasy, icky feeling when I heard the leader of that group's name. He died young, shot and killed during a fight or drug deal or some such.
I have a theory that most girls have had their privacy violated in some way during their teen years. I was peeped at in the shower by boys who lived down the street and touched by a guy at my church. Nothing that I would say went as far as molestation and certainly not rape...but enough to leave me with that awful used feeling.
And as for men being raped...I knew a guy in Jr. High who had been molested by his female baby sitter. The state took him from his father. He was in a "home" waiting to be fostered and we formed a friendship. He had me read his autobiography (which was one of the steps he had to do to have visitors at the home...I promised I'd come visit if he did because he didn't have anyone else). He had some of the most confusing views of sex and sexuality that I had or have ever experienced. I think it would be safe to say that rape and molestation have a big impact, no matter the gender.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Patrick Edwards (63.240.53.---)
Date: 07-11-08 15:39
Oh yeah, the world really did spin around me. :-)
:)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Patrick Edwards (63.240.53.---)
Date: 07-11-08 15:58
First off, Kate B, I'm sorry you had to go through that. Especially that you felt you had to endure that in order to get some attention. (Reminds me of a phone call I ahd with my niece some weeks ago, where she said at the end of the call: "I love you, Uncle Pat," and I said to her, "Bran, you don't have to say that every time we talk; I know you still love me from the last time, and I hope you realize I love you still." She laughed and that was it. Unfortunately, I talked with my mother a week or so later and it came up where she mentioned my niece wasn't saying "I love you" anymore, which my mother was okay with her saying it every time. When I related me and Bran's (my niece) conversation, my mother explained that that was probably not the coolest thing to do. And I agreed.)
It's amazing the contradicting feelings in situations like this. How, on one hand, it's a creepy and bad feeling, but on the other, something about it made it dealable.
--------
I>He had some of the most confusing views of sex and sexuality that I had or have ever experienced. I think it would be safe to say that rape and molestation have a big impact, no matter the gender.
And about the guy in Jr. High (I hope I'm not prying too much--just that conversations like this don't come up too often between intelligent folks with writer-descriptioning skills), did he not enjoy the "molestation"? I mean, I realize the consequence of it was horrible as he was sitting in a group home, but it's just tripped out, because I always thought it would be nice to have the sex forced on me....
I thought about erasing that last line because it hit me the difference in that "forced" means you're not necessarily sure it's something you want. And I guess I've received overtures from a woman or two who I had absolutely no desire to be with (not necessarily because of the physical either), and would have not enjoyed being forced to give her some sort of pleasure, whether it be physical, mental, or whatever. Even though the actual physical sensation would have probably been enjoyable to a degree.
Which makes me think of one more thing in the negative for women: In the forced act, it will happen. All a guy has to do is aim and guide and the deed is being done. As for the opposite, a woman can't force a guy to become erect (able to penetrate), which lends to another disadvantage for females, though there doesn't appear to be any real advantages to any of this madness, so....
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Lily (---.net)
Date: 07-11-08 16:20
"...did he not enjoy the "molestation"?"
It's a demonic dichotomy, Patrick. One's body may respond, and experience pleasure. But the will, mind and emotions are in turmoil, and horrified by it all.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Lily (---.net)
Date: 07-11-08 16:29
"I have a theory that most girls have had their privacy violated in some way during their teen years."
Oh yes, I second that, perhaps even earlier. This doesn't have to involve actual touch, either. I'd have been about ten years old, with a friend, and taking a short cut up a lane, by a railway station, when we encountered a flasher. It was the middle of the afternoon. Broad daylight. He wore a British Rail uniform. Imagine that he would take that kind of a chance, while at work?
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Patrick Edwards (63.240.53.---)
Date: 07-11-08 16:43
Am I the only one who was put in the mind of Benny Hill?
:)
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Kate B. (---.hsd1.oh.comcast.net)
Date: 07-11-08 19:01
I had a thought. The molestation of the boy in Jr. High was one thing. He described his feelings around the molestation as confusion. He had liked the girl. He was 12 and she was 19. He was also being beaten by his father so he had a lot of stuff to deal with. But I do know that he didn’t seem to know how to have a conversation with a girl that didn’t center around sex. He made a comment to me about edible underwear and I made it clear that I wasn’t going to listen to that type of talk. He liked me enough that he made an effort to relate to me on another level. But I could tell that it wasn’t easy for him.
On the other hand, I also had a male roommate in grad school who had been raped anally by a man. I think that if men try to understand the rape of a woman they should try to imagine being penetrated forcefully in that way. There is something that is hard to describe about the act of being receptive. Rape is such an act of violence and it’s being done to you…an unsolicited BJ or sex doesn’t equate.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Kate B. (---.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
Date: 07-11-08 19:04
I agree Lily. I've never met a woman who didn't have some story like that. My partner has dozens and so do I. Not all of them were some type of touching (like the boys who liked to watch me shower through frosted glass)...but they are all a violation.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Lily (---.net)
Date: 07-11-08 19:55
"...the boys who liked to watch me shower through frosted glass."
Talking of which, I had a male stick his head under the door of a toilet stall, and ogle me. And you know, I even managed to blame myself--at least, partially--for this. Perhaps, I shouldn't have gone into this particular washroom, because it was very close to the parking area, and down a long corridor from the main foyer of the hotel?
I was meeting friends for dinner, in the revolving restaurant on the top floor. It turned out to be a rough meal for me. I managed to feel shaky, guilty, and violated all at the same time. And striving sooooo hard to act "normal."
I did report the incident, to hotel management, the following day. I wasn't the only woman who had complained, and it did do some good. A lock was put on the door afterwards, and one had to get the key from the desk clerk.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Lily (---.net)
Date: 07-11-08 20:26
I just wanted to add here, that although incidents like these can seem benign, and even comical, when retold, at the time they're anything but. I was terrified. Can you imagine the shock of something like that suddenly happening? And I was all too aware of how isolated the washroom was. Was he going to attack me? Abduct me? Rape me? Kill me? I had no way of knowing.
Plus, I was in an extra vulnerable position. I was wearing a jumpsuit, and unlike guys, we can't just zipper down the fly, when we have to pee. So there I was trying desperately to get the damned thing up again and cover myself while yelling God knows what at him.
The strange thing is, when I first noticed the face under the door, I wasn't afraid, I was just irritated. I thought it was someone--a woman, of course--who had dropped something in the washroom earlier, and had come back to look for it. I remember thinking, "How damned rude."
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: the cat came back (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date: 07-11-08 20:59
An male acquaintance of mine was raped by a man, got HIV/AIDS and, being in lousy health in the first place, died in only a few years.
When I was seventeen, I was comming home from a celebration of all things psychedelic -- they stopped Leary at the border -- I used the washroom in the subway, stoned out of my head. Some old perv stuck his finger in my crotch with a big smile on his face. I was so shocked, I just stared at him, unable to move or respond. Finally, I said, "No," and walked out.
I think these things go on far more than we imagine.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Lily (---.net)
Date: 07-11-08 22:39
Cat
Men aren't hit on as much as women. They're generally bigger and more aggressive. There was a story in the news a few years ago, about a transvestite construction worker. When some creep groped him--believing him to be female, and therefore, an easy mark--he nearly beat him to death. There's the difference. You know, men wouldn't put up with the half of what women do. They would be shocked--as this guy was--by the invasion of their space and security of person.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Kate B. (---.hsd1.oh.comcast.net)
Date: 07-12-08 10:02
I agree that men probably don’t experience inappropriate touching as often as women, but when it happens it’s no less traumatic. I think that large men—bullies—like to target women and smaller men. I’ve seen it. I don’t know what your build was like when you were 17 cat, but I wonder if you were slender or smaller than average. I’m sorry that happened to you…I understand how shocking it can be.
I heard a story (from an old boss of mine, who knew her) about a woman up here in Pittsburgh who used to work in the steel mills. The men who worked with her harassed her constantly and she didn’t say anything. Then one day one of them followed her into the bathroom. I don’t know if they were just going to mess with her or really hurt her (like it matters when you’re in that situation) but she was trained in self-defense and kicked his ass.
The problem, as I see it, is too often women are raised to be quiet, not disagree with men or authority, and are told that someone should take care of them. That’s how I was raised. I would have never occurred to me to hit the men who have touched me or to scream. Most of them were people I knew and nice girls didn’t act that way towards people they knew. I think that’s gotten better since I was a kid…at least I hope so.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Lily (---.net)
Date: 07-12-08 14:23
"The problem, as I see it, is too often women are raised to be quiet, not disagree with men or authority, and are told that someone should take care of them."
Sets us up for a fall, doesn't it? However, depending on the situation sometimes "being nice" aka "outsmarting them," can save your bacon.
I was almost the victim of date rape a couple of times. (Show me the woman who hasn't been! :-) My God, it's the nature of the beast. And I did say *beast.* The first time, I pretended to go along with it. (we were in his car) I said I wanted to go home. He fell for it. But it wasn't my place I had him drive me to, it was the home of a guy I knew. When he opened the door, the would-be rapist took off like a scalded cat. I still have a chuckle when I remember the shocked and disappointed look on his ugly face! (LOL) He was a big bastard and probably a psycho, if he'd ever caught me after that he would have killed me. Ain't life grand?
The second time was in the stables of a racetrack, after hours. Yeah, I know har har har. I'd made the mistake of asking to see the horses. He was a puny little runt and drunk as a skunk. (well almost) He was determined to force himself on me. I was in a panic. This was a lonely place. No one around to help me. So I kneed him as hard as I could in the nuts and ran like hell. His scream of pain was most satisfying. Then he cursed and pounded after me like all the fiends of hell. I knew that if he caught me, he'd kill me. The security check point was the most welcome sight I'd ever seen.
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Re: Cheesy books I love |
Author: Patrick Edwards (63.240.53.---)
Date: 07-14-08 13:30
I was almost the victim of date rape a couple of times. (Show me the woman who hasn't been! :-) My God, it's the nature of the beast. And I did say *beast.* The first time, I pretended to go along with it. (we were in his car) I said I wanted to go home. He fell for it. But it wasn't my place I had him drive me to, it was the home of a guy I knew. When he opened the door, the would-be rapist took off like a scalded cat. I still have a chuckle when I remember the shocked and disappointed look on his ugly face! (LOL) He was a big bastard and probably a psycho, if he'd ever caught me after that he would have killed me. Ain't life grand?
Yes, it is! Smooth. Very smooth! (And life is most certainly grand. Brings me back up a peg after hearing the other women's stories. :(
Though your stories are authentically real (from an actual person), I remember watching Monster (Charlize Theron) and wanting to pulverize that one dude, who raped her out in the woods. Absolutely pulverize him. I almost wished she hadn't been so quick about it.
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