John McCain |
Author: J G (---.norf.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-17-08 17:38
An article about him written by Karl Rove in the Wall Street Journal.
I can only imagine some of the comments that will be made without the article even being read, but this article isn't about George Bush, and McCain didn't ask Rove to write this, so to those who may be interested, it's a pretty good article.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: jayce (---.mob.bellsouth.net)
Date: 05-17-08 17:52
No one can legitimately question John McCain's patriotism, courage, or personal moral code, but that doesn't stop people from trying. In fact it was George Bush's campaign in the 2000 South Carolina primary that claimed McCain had fathered an illegitimate child, a rumor spawned by none other than...yep, good ol' Karl Rove, the writer of the article.
What hypocrisy.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.norf.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-17-08 17:57
Oh, I don't care who wrote the article, but I thought the stories about him were worth sharing.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: L Bea (---.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net)
Date: 05-17-08 17:59
Fathered an illegitimate child?
So the things Bill Clinton did WHILE in office are forgotten, okay and not applicable???
It's funny the double standard. We're not supposed to consider the personal life of a democrat, but if it's a republican, everything is fair game. Don't get it.
Bea
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Re: John McCain |
Author: jayce (---.mob.bellsouth.net)
Date: 05-17-08 18:17
Huh?... who said anything about Democrats. The rumor was directed AT a Republican BY a Republican.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Xavier Onassis (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: 05-17-08 18:30
Kinda like "voodoo economics" -- Bush I's term for Reaganomics. Didn't stop him from becoming the veep and pushing the voodoo agenda!
XO
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Liza B. (---.c3-0.avec-ubr15.nyr-avec.ny.cable.)
Date: 05-17-08 18:58
"So the things Bill Clinton did WHILE in office are forgotten, okay and not applicable???
It's funny the double standard. We're not supposed to consider the personal life of a democrat, but if it's a republican, everything is fair game. Don't get it."
Um.....Bill Clinton got kicked out of office over a blow job. Haven't you been reading the papers?
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Ryan McManigal (---.prod-infinitum.com.mx)
Date: 05-17-08 19:03
If sex is wrong, then I don't want to be right.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: the cat came back (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date: 05-17-08 19:03
He got kidcked out of office?
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Ryan McManigal (---.prod-infinitum.com.mx)
Date: 05-17-08 19:14
Um.....Bill Clinton got kicked out of office over a blow job. Haven't you been reading the papers?
Huh? I'm pretty sure Bill finished his term in office. The fact that we held congregational meetings about his personal life was ridiculous though. Yeah he originally lied about getting a BJ but it was never our business in the first place.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Liza B. (---.c3-0.avec-ubr15.nyr-avec.ny.cable.)
Date: 05-17-08 19:25
Impeached. Yeah, he was allowed to finish his term. And you're right, his sex life wasn't our business. At all.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Ryan McManigal (---.prod-infinitum.com.mx)
Date: 05-17-08 19:30
If I was married to Hilary I'd be getting side jobs too. lol
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Xavier Onassis (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: 05-17-08 19:39
If sex is wrong, then I don't want to be right.
Me too! Unfortunately, under that definition I pretty much always am.
XO
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Re: John McCain |
Author: L Bea (---.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net)
Date: 05-17-08 19:42
Exactly my point. It's okay that Bill Clinton got away with whatever because "it's personal-- not our business." It's different for a Republican. Not acceptable AT ALL. Bill's sex life is not our business, but it seems to be our business when it's McCain or some other Republican. That's all I'm saying.
Bea
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Re: John McCain |
Author: jayce (---.mob.bellsouth.net)
Date: 05-17-08 19:52
It's different for a Republican.
Tell that to Elliott Spitzer.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.norf.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-17-08 19:55
Uh, Liza...
Being impeached doesn't always = getting kicked out of office... wtf. lol
Oh, and sex isn't wrong, but getting a blowjob from a woman other than your wife while in the oval office and then lying about it is wrong.
But, seriously... Is there anyone that's going to debate that?
Seriously? lol
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Simon Says (---.socal.res.rr.com)
Date: 05-17-08 19:58
I gotta disagree with you on not questioning McCain's personal moral code, Jayce.
Over the course of the last eight years I have lost total respect for the guy. He has sucked up to people like Falwell, Hagee and Pat Robertson. He has stopped making choices based on his moral code and has instead opted for political expediency repeatedly.
I used to admire him greatly, now I think he wants to be President so badly that he is willing to sell his soul to do so.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.norf.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-17-08 20:00
He's sucked up to people like Falwell, Hagee and Robertson?
Falwell? How?
Hagee? McCain was never a member of his church. He received his endorsement, but can't do anything about that just as Obama can't do anything about receiving Farrakhan's endorsement.
Pat Robertson? How?
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Liza B. (---.c3-0.avec-ubr15.nyr-avec.ny.cable.)
Date: 05-17-08 20:01
"It's okay that Bill Clinton got away with whatever because "it's personal-- not our business." It's different for a Republican."
How did Clinton get away with it again? Do you believe impeachment wasn't enough?
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Ryan McManigal (---.prod-infinitum.com.mx)
Date: 05-17-08 20:01
I don't think Bill really got away with it though. He was smeared all over the news for months. Not to mention the personal backlash he probably got from Hilary behind closed doors.
I don't think McCain's sex life should be talked about either, or any of the candidates sexual episodes for that matter.
Unless the stories are funny of course ;)
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.norf.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-17-08 20:02
Liza.. the impeachment resulted in... nothing.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Liza B. (---.c3-0.avec-ubr15.nyr-avec.ny.cable.)
Date: 05-17-08 20:07
The personal humiliation he was forced to endure is a far cry from "nothing," JG. What would you have preferred - for him to be hung by the balls in some public square, broadcast live on CNN?
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Simon Says (---.socal.res.rr.com)
Date: 05-17-08 20:10
JG perhaps you need a news source other than Fox News.
McCain didn't just passively get Hagee's endorsement, he PURSUED IT. AND HE PUBLICLY EXPRESSED HIS GRATITUDE FOR RECEIVING IT!
As for sucking up to Falwell he spoke at Liberty University to "make nice" with him.
Do a little googling and compare what the true maverick McCain of 2000 said about Falwell et. al. in comparison with what the scruple-less hypocritical McCain of 2007 & 2008 is saying.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Liza B. (---.c3-0.avec-ubr15.nyr-avec.ny.cable.)
Date: 05-17-08 20:23
Personal and very public humiliation, I should have said.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: L Bea (---.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net)
Date: 05-17-08 20:24
Bill Clinton impeached?????? What planet did this happen on? I can name a number of presidents whose opposite party cried impeach. He was never impeached. Personal humiliation? Give me a break. Cite an example where any president was never humiliatied about something. They're in the public eye and a target. Every one of them has endured ridicule and humiliation from one source or another.
Bea
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Liza B. (---.c3-0.avec-ubr15.nyr-avec.ny.cable.)
Date: 05-17-08 20:30
It happened on planet earth, Bea.
"Clinton became the first elected U.S. president and the second U.S. president to be impeached, following Andrew Johnson in 1868. (In 1974, Richard Nixon resigned the Presidency before the House impeachment vote.)"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Liza B. (---.c3-0.avec-ubr15.nyr-avec.ny.cable.)
Date: 05-17-08 20:38
Duh.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Ryan McManigal (---.prod-infinitum.com.mx)
Date: 05-17-08 20:41
Maybe McCain realized that being a corporate puppet is the only realistic way to office now days; like Bush is. Sad, but most likely true.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Ryan McManigal (---.prod-infinitum.com.mx)
Date: 05-17-08 20:44
Liza, he was acquitted of the charge. Read the first sentence.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Ryan McManigal (---.prod-infinitum.com.mx)
Date: 05-17-08 20:45
Charge with, and convicted of, are two very different things.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Liza B. (---.c3-0.avec-ubr15.nyr-avec.ny.cable.)
Date: 05-17-08 20:55
I'm aware of that - but that doesn't lessen the historical fact that he was the first elected U.S. president to be impeached.
"Upon the passage of H. Res. 611, Clinton was impeached on December 19, 1998, by the House of Representatives on grounds of perjury to a grand jury (by a 228-206 vote) and obstruction of justice (by a 221-212 vote). Two other articles of impeachment failed — a second count of perjury in the Jones case (by a 205-229 vote) and one accusing Clinton of abuse of power (by a 148-285 vote). Four Republicans opposed all four articles, while five Democrats voted for at least one of them. Upon passage of H. Res. 611, Clinton became the first elected U.S. president and the second U.S. president to be impeached, following Andrew Johnson in 1868. (In 1974, Richard Nixon resigned the Presidency before the House impeachment vote.)"
"In January 2001, on the day before leaving office, Clinton agreed to a five-year suspension of his Arkansas law license as part of an agreement with the independent counsel to end the investigation. Based on this suspension, Clinton was automatically suspended from the United States Supreme Court bar, from which he then chose to resign."
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Kitty Foyle (---.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net)
Date: 05-17-08 21:03
I have a soft spot for poor ol' Bill. :-)
*_*
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Xavier Onassis (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: 05-17-08 21:22
I don't care if McCain fathered an illegitimate child, or if Bill Clinton cheats on his wife. Seriously, what other people do with their pee pees just doesn't fascinate me.
I do find it hilarious when these "morality" crusaders get caught with their pants down. Mark Foley, the anti-gay, anti-online pedophile crusader, turns out to be a gay online pedophile.
Then there was the one in Washington, whose name escapes me now. Built his career on anti-gay crusades, later to be outed as a regular in the local gay pickup chatrooms.
And David Vitter, another "morality crusader," busted as a client of the DC madam. Way to represent your contituency!
Then let's not forget Jeff Gannon, dearly beloved of the Bush administration. Recall their claim to legitimacy in the White House being based on their major support of the Christian right, much of their platform being anti-gay. So how does a gay escort like Gannon get so much face time with Karl Rove?
Then there's Bill Bennett, for whom "Morality Czar" was actually part of his job description. Mr. Bennett frequently went to Atlantic City (in a chauffered limosine, natch) to gamble. Casino personnel were instructed not to speak to him or attempt eye contact. I just can't help but notice that to get to Atlantic City from Washington, DC, he'd be driving through some of the worst ghettos in this country. In his chauffered limosine. Dropping ungodly amounts of money in casinos, in a highly moral (yet detached from the little people) way.
I know, Republicans like to think everything is even, no matter how lopsided it is. But here's the thing: Democrats don't run on these morality platforms. They don't spend all their time promising people that they'll work to make sure nobody else can do anything with their pee pees that fundamentalist Christians don't do. Republicans do that. So when they have sex scandals? Yeah, it does take a different tone.
XO
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Re: John McCain |
Author: the cat came back (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date: 05-17-08 21:50
JFK was a satyr.
So what.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: jayce (---.mob.bellsouth.net)
Date: 05-17-08 22:58
Simon Says:
Point taken.
My post was aimed a Karl Row
ve. Given the brief space to make it, and McCain's increasing pandering to become Bush's heir, I tried to couch the rumor in the atmosphere that existed eight years ago--hence the focus on McCains personal moral code--as opposed his current and ever-changing political morality.
Lame, I know, but there you have it.
(BTW, I too support McCain in 2000. What a disappointment he has become.)
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.norf.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-17-08 23:30
Simon Says,
I looooove how you assume I get ALL of my news from Fox News.
Nice try!
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Simon Says (---.socal.res.rr.com)
Date: 05-18-08 10:48
Well JG, since you were completely unaware of McCain's hot pursuit to garner the endorsements of the far right blowhards - and said pursuit has received coverage on a wide variety of news outlets - and Fox has the habit of not reporting or misreporting any number of things that conflicts with its agenda - and this news would conflict with their agenda - I made an assumption.
My bad.
Perhaps it's not your source of news that's the problem, perhaps you just don't follow or pay attention to the news.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.norf.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-18-08 11:06
Persuing this kind of pathetic attack on my news-gathering habits speaks a bit to your intelligence by assuming I get all of my news from Fox, when the article I linked to in the first post of this thread is from...
the Wall Street Journal.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Xavier Onassis (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: 05-18-08 12:16
Well, it was written by Karl Rove. Do you think he's "fair and balanced," like Fox News and Bill O'Reilly are? Is there anybody that you think of as far right, as opposed to moderate and centrist?
In other news, McCain was pretty funny on SNL. Good on him, glad he has a sense of humor.
I'll still never vote for him, but yeah, I think he's a decent guy and I appreciate his service.
XO
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.norf.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-18-08 12:18
Xavier,
I never expressed an opinion one way or the other on Karl Rove.
But I have to ask... Because this particular article was written by Karl Rove, does that make the stories told about McCain false? Do people not have the ability to verify these stories on their own?
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Xavier Onassis (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: 05-18-08 12:37
Because this particular article was written by Karl Rove, does that make the stories told about McCain false?
Nope.
I'm sure he's an exceptionally strong man and a soldier (technically a sailor) to be proud of.
It also means he's just the latest tool Rove uses to work his agenda. Rove talks smack about McCain when it suits him, praises him when it suits him. ::yawn:: See ya in hell, Karl.
XO
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.norf.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-18-08 12:41
Xavier,
I don't care anything for Karl, either. It's a shame the article had to be written by him, because there are those without the intellectual fortitude to verify these stories on their own because of that fact.
Luckily, we both know they're true ;-)
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Simon Says (---.socal.res.rr.com)
Date: 05-18-08 12:58
JG
You are the one that challenged my comments about McCain sucking up to certain members of an extremely intolerant and judgmental part of the religious right who he had previously had the balls to stand up against.
Wherever you get your news from you are woefully ill-informed - at least about this particular issue, which incidentally got an awful lot of coverage.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.norf.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-18-08 12:59
That may very well be true, Simon. Congratulations.
You successfully changed the subject from the great facts about McCain that no one can debate.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Simon Says (---.socal.res.rr.com)
Date: 05-18-08 13:24
Actually JG YOU changed the debate.
My original comments (which were in response to Jayce's remarks, not yours) were about how much McCain has changed, what a hypocrite he's become, and while it does not negate his honorable actions of the past or present - it has made me and many others lose the respect we had for him. Rove's stories are about what McCain did 15-40 years ago, I'm looking at what he did last week, last month, yesterday - i.e voting to kill the anti torture bill.
You challenged me on the facts I stated, and then, rather than acknowledging that I was right on the facts about McCain and Falwell and debating me on my stand on the issue of McCain. - you have been harping on my remark about where you get your news from, which is totally off point.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Xavier Onassis (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: 05-18-08 14:51
Luckily, we both know they're true ;-)
I wouldn't go so far as to say "lucky," since I don't actually care.
I don't know. Maybe heroic people who suck it up in the service of the community are a major rarity in your life, but they're not in mine. I've known other POWs personally, and POW families.
I'm a firefighter. A bunch of guys on my department are active duty military. Almost all of them have been to both Iraq and Afghanistan at least once. When they're not overseas, they're running into burning buildings, or at least getting up and coming to the station anytime their pagers go off in the middle of the night. It's not as dramatic as McCain's story, but it's still an ongoing sacrifice that most people wouldn't make -- getting out of bed and driving around town whatever hour of the day or not, in case some stranger who won't even appreciate it needs you to risk your life.
Like I said, welcome home Senator McCain. I'm not voting for you because you don't represent me.
XO
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.nrflva.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-18-08 15:46
Simon,
Chill. I already conceded in my last post that you may very well be more informed about who McCain has pandered to since he last ran. Awesome.
But yes, you and the others did change the subject. I started the thread. lol... All I was doing was pointing out the stories that I thought should be shared about him. If you want to talk about how he was looking for votes in the conservative base, like any Republican needs to do, then good for you. I'll keep pointing back to the more relevant stories I brought up in the initial post of this thread.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Ro Lefwyn (---.sub-70-217-97.myvzw.com)
Date: 05-18-08 16:05
I don't intend on voting for McCain, but I wouldn't believe a word that Karl Rove writes about anyone. He was the mastermind behind the South Carolina tar and feathering. I was horrorfied on the behalf of McCain whom I think should be honored for his service to his country.
I was doubly horrorfied of McCain when he cozied back up to Bush after the horrible slanderous things that Bush, via Rove, hurled about his family. I just figured 'so much for family values.' If you'll climb into bed with those that so viciously slandered your family you sure as hell aren't going to care about my family.
ro
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.nrflva.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-18-08 16:08
Ro,
Luckily the stories about McCain described in that article have been confirmed by other people before.
As far as cozying up to certain people that they didn't previously, well, that's what you have to do when you're a nominee.
You can already see it in the Democratic party... just wait till Hillary finally calls it quits.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Simon Says (---.socal.res.rr.com)
Date: 05-18-08 16:44
JG
I don't think what McCain did to aid a fellow POW with an injury almost forty years ago, is more relevant than his position on the current war or how he voted on torture or how he's flip flopped on important issues over the past seven years to in order to garner votes. You act like this is simply what he must do to win, but it goes against the very "principles over politics" persona he has cultivated over his political career - a persona he's still marketing as he puts politics over everything - which goes beyond mere hypocrisy. Another example - his fancy footwork regarding public financing and using his public funds as collateral for a loan to his campaign. Despicable for the man behind McCain Feingold.
These issues mentioned above are the issues McCain will be confronting if he is to become president and i think looking to his more recent actions (and the ease with which he ignores his own stated principles) are a better way to assess his character than to look at the fact that he adopted a child of a different race seventeen years ago. I think that the fact that Karl Rove sees the adoption as something above and beyond says far more about Rove's humanity or lack thereof, than either of the McCains.
Rove also was behind the rumor that their adopted child was the product of an adulterous relationship between McCain and (gasp!) a black woman which hit South Carolina before the primary and was effectively the beginning of the end of McCain's campaign. At the time, McCain was very vocal about how reprehensible such a tactic was, Now Rove is an unofficial advisor to McCain. Just another example of Mcain's politics over principles
.
I'm going to assume that I misunderstood you and that you really don't think that the anecdotes in Rove's column (it wasn't an article, it was an opinion piece) are actually more relevant than the positions McCain is taking and has been taking (including Senate votes) over the last seven years.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.nrflva.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-18-08 17:06
Simon,
Do you by chance go by any other handles here at WN? Your um, "tone" reminds me of another poster here.
No, you don't understand me.
The man's character is most certainly relevant to this election, especially in regards to his experience in foreign policy, over his likely Democratic opponent.
I like how you call the stories about McCain anecdotes. Those experiences of his have most definitely been verified previously.
And no, I'm not going to fault McCain for pandering to the conservative base. He's the Republican nominee. He has to. Any politician has to pander to their base in order to win.
If you think the Democratics haven't displayed similar political maneuvering, well then, that might make sense considering your position.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Xavier Onassis (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: 05-18-08 17:29
But yes, you and the others did change the subject. I started the thread. lol... All I was doing was pointing out the stories that I thought should be shared about him.
You just want everybody to play your game on your terms. Yes, let's all sit around and wank to Karl Rove's propaganda. That's very, very relevant.
XO
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Xavier Onassis (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: 05-18-08 17:41
The man's character is most certainly relevant to this election, especially in regards to his experience in foreign policy, over his likely Democratic opponent.
See, here's the thing Republican voters don't seem to get. Some of us are sick to death of the hawks. And yes, McCain is a bigtime hawk, as is Dubya. The hawks have run amok for eight long years, and have screwed the pooch. Maybe the doves can take a turn at the wheel, does that sound fair?
XO
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.nrflva.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-18-08 17:46
Xavier,
Did I ever say let's sit around and wank to Karl Rove's propaganda or praise Karl Rove?
No. Nice try.
I did however bring up the stories about John McCain that happen to be true, whether repeated by Karl Rove or not.
But.. here we go again--typical writers net liberalism! Bring up every single thing NOT related to the topic to further the minority radical left opinion.
You folks crack me up! As I said in the O'Reilly thread.. I'm so thankful that the majority of the country doesn't think the way you do.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.nrflva.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-18-08 17:47
And here's another newsflash for you Xavier,
Despite the fact that you live in a fictional utopia, there are people out there who don't want to communicate with us via doves..
Geeze.. you folks are so naive.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Xavier Onassis (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: 05-18-08 17:59
LOL
Thanks for sharing.
XO
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Xavier Onassis (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: 05-18-08 18:12
And here's another newsflash for you Xavier,
Is it from Fox News? Cause they're awesome! Fair AND balanced, all at the same time!!
Despite the fact that you live in a fictional utopia
Yep. That's my life alright! Fictional utopia. Nothing bad ever happens in my world. I wouldn't be able to hack it in your big mean world.
Let me ask you who dwell in the real world (in which I would clearly never survive), JG, when's the last time you put your fingers into a dead person's mouth? Performed CPR? Delivered a baby in a truck? Risked your life in the service of your community? How many returning Iraq/Afghan vets do you personally know?
Geeze.. you folks are so naive.
Yeah, that's me alright. Sheltered from the harsh realities of life. You've got me pegged!
XO
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Simon Says (---.socal.res.rr.com)
Date: 05-18-08 18:21
No JG
I don't have other handles here and never have. For better or for worse I'm always me.
I understand your point, JG, but you seem to be missing mine.
A man's character is defined through all his actions - not just selective ones. And in my opinion at least, a man's more recent actions may be a better reflection of his current character than what he did decades ago.
A boy scout as a child who becomes a thief as an adult - is a thief, not a boy scout.
In 2000 I was seriously considering voting for McCain in the general election, if he'd made it there. But he no longer is the man I admired - and it's not just a matter of rhetoric - his votes on the senate floor reflect that change, his actions reflect that change.
And I called them anecdotes because they are.
Anecdote:
"A short and amusing or interesting story about a real incident or person"
You referred to it as article, which it is not - it's an opinion piece.
Incidentally there are many true anecdotes about McCain that place his character in a different light i.e. Do you take those into account as well when assessing his character or do you cherry pick the stories that you choose to judge his character by?
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.norf.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-18-08 19:00
Xavier,
No, the newsflash isn't from Fox News, (well, it very well could be, but I've formed this opinion on my own), but, believe it or not... not everyone in this world wants to extend olive branches, extend a "dove" mentality, or sit down and talk with us. Do I really have to point to one very large example of this that the left accuses the right of using to perpetuate fear? Please.
Oh, and I didn't know you knew me so well?
I served two tours in Iraq, and I've seen more than you can imagine. Nice try. I'd suggest thinking twice before you step into a ridiculous question you don't know the answer to.
Simon,
Fair enough! See, I don't always argue just for the sake of arguing ;)
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Xavier Onassis (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: 05-18-08 19:12
Oh, and I didn't know you knew me so well?
I didn't, that's why I asked. I wanted to know if you're just talking out your butt or what, cause it really seems like it.
I served two tours in Iraq, and I've seen more than you can imagine. Nice try. I'd suggest thinking twice before you step into a ridiculous question you don't know the answer to.
Wow, you're still so sure what I have and haven't seen! I'm glad I'm not omniscient, seems like an awful lot of responsibility. Does it ever make your brain hurt?
I'm not scared of a single thing you have to say, in real life.
XO
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.norf.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-18-08 19:14
I'm only reacting to your own naivete in thinking the "dove" mentality can prevail in any situation...
"Maybe the doves can take a turn at the wheel, does that sound fair?"
Naive... and typically... liberal.
And while I don't agree with knee-jerking into anything and everything that may threaten us with military action, the exact opposite of that (doing nothing, handing out doves, making love and not war, etc.) is just as equally pathetic.
Anything else?
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.norf.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-18-08 19:16
PS. Xavier,
Another example of what you've been doing within the past few hours of responses, you failed to respond to this:
"No, the newsflash isn't from Fox News, (well, it very well could be, but I've formed this opinion on my own), but, believe it or not... not everyone in this world wants to extend olive branches, extend a "dove" mentality, or sit down and talk with us. Do I really have to point to one very large example of this that the left accuses the right of using to perpetuate fear? Please."
Or are you just going to continue going off on these smart-a$$ed tangents?
LOL
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Xavier Onassis (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: 05-18-08 19:29
And while I don't agree with knee-jerking into anything and everything that may threaten us with military action, the exact opposite of that (doing nothing, handing out doves, making love and not war, etc.) is just as equally pathetic.
Anything else?
Yeah. Coming from a warmonger's perspective, it's impossible to comprehend peace, why people want it, or how it might come about. I live in a red state. I'm surrounded by warmongers. Whenever we talk politics, it is always they who assure me "you don't understand." They never, ever pause to consider the possibility they they may be the ones missing something. Like yourself, they're omniscient, one and all.
The war paradigm has been the only one we've ever used. So those of us who don't agree with it are still pretty clear on how it works.
The peace one has never been tried. You clearly don't get it, since you seem to think there's some idea that it involves "doing nothing" (it doesn't) and "handing out doves." Not sure what that even means, but it has nothing to do with my agenda.
About your little challenge, honestly I don't care about it. Either make your point or don't.
XO
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.norf.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-18-08 19:34
I've never said I'm omniscient or assumed I am. Such sarcastic comments don't lend to the conversation. I clearly ruffled your feathers when you took my reference to the radical left personally, which is a shame, because you are now lending nothing to the debate.
And you clearly don't understand what I'm saying because you're incorrectly assuming I only support a war paradigm.
Let me try again:
I do not agree with knee-jerk military action, nor pacifism.
Extremes. Get it? I don't like them.
I like real solutions to real problems. Some require military action, some can be solved quicker, easier and more productively through diplomacy.
I've outlined my stances in the other thread, have reiterated here my disdain for extremism, and have also reiterated my support for appropriate action to various problems.
So... do you still have a problem with anything? Or, are you going to keep saying I'm an omniscient warmonger... or something.
(Typical Writers Net debate... how sad)
I have to head out to cook dinner, so... have fun.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Xavier Onassis (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: 05-18-08 19:40
Yeah, actually I've pointed out a number of things you've said that assume you know facts you couldn't possibly know. I'm not going to bother re-pasting them all again. You know what I've experienced, what I'm thinking, what the majority of Americans think, the list goes on and on. But hey, whatever. Enjoy your meal.
XO
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.nrflva.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-18-08 21:08
...like calling me an omniscient warmonger. Way to totally miss everything I said in my last post.
And, it seems I have a better pulse on what the majority of Americans think than you do.. That's why the call the radical right, the radical left... minority opinions... the ones you took such offense at me calling out. How transparent.
But hey, whatever, I did enjoy my meal, thanks! I had some dove.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Xavier Onassis (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: 05-18-08 21:10
I didn't take offense. I'm just recapping what actually happened.
Glad you enjoyed your dinner. I just rocked 45 minutes on the elliptical. Now I'm going to write some stuff for money.
XO
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Simon Says (---.socal.res.rr.com)
Date: 05-20-08 14:03
The latest example of McCain being caught in a misstatement/lie.
The latest example of McCain getting a foreign policy fact wrong.
Two, two, two gaffes in one
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/20/mccain-confronted-with-ne_n_102614.html
Does he really look to the average American's understanding of foreign affairs as his guide?
Is this a sign of considerable diminishment of mental capacity or just considerable disingenuousness? I ask this question in all seriousness, because I find myself repeatedly wondering whether he's making these misstatements on purpose, or if he's in the early stages of Alzheimer's or some other form of senility.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.nrflva.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-20-08 15:33
McCain is blatantly spinning the Ahmadinejad leader/not-the-leader issue to his advantage to keep up whatever impression he may or may not have in the public eye.
But to accuse the man of having diminished mental capacity is pretty lame...
But then again, the huffington post to me, is the liberal equivalent of what some claim Fox News is.
But then again, Fox News doesn't claim people are retarded for being politicians.
But, hey, whatever... this thread had been dead for a few days, but just felt compelled to respond to your post made today, Simon. ;-)
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Simon Says (---.socal.res.rr.com)
Date: 05-20-08 15:56
JG
I didn't accuse, I questioned. I've seen a lot of video tape of him lately where he's been factually challenged and can't tell if he's lying or he's confusing the facts. I don't think I or anyone at the Huffington Post has suggested he's retarded - so please clarify that remark or stop spinning.
You seem sure he's lying, and he may very well be.
I question the soundness of the strategy of repeatedly saying things that are untrue even after you've been corrected, at tines by your own posse (Lieberman) when there's a chance that your age (and ability to retain information) may be an issue. He's going to have access to the button, not handing out dollar bills to the grandkids should he get elected.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.nrflva.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-20-08 16:09
I wasn't spinning by saying "retarded." I just didn't feel like typing out "diminished mental capacity." Relax, SS.
But yeah, I just think he's wanting to keep Ahmadinejad's name in the public eye to keep his foriegn policy experience highlighted, and because of that, people over at the huff post think he is experiencing "diminished mental capacity."
Anyway...
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Re: John McCain |
Author: Simon Says (---.socal.res.rr.com)
Date: 05-20-08 16:20
I was talking about senility - which is very different than being "retarded." I think it's a legitimate concern when you are talking about a man in his seventies.
I just heard Obama on CNN and I gotta say unless the vast majority of the American electorate are mentally challenged, this in the long run will do McCain more harm than good.
Obama's response is just so logical and easy to understand and makes sense on so many levels and it also makes it clear that McCain is just blowing smoke.
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Re: John McCain |
Author: J G (---.nrflva.east.verizon.net)
Date: 05-20-08 18:14
Well, I've been saying that I think McCain is spinning the Ahmadinejad paranoia to his favor.. and I've also said I'm still very much considering voting for Obama, so.. We'll see how it plays out.
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