Author: Richard Fulgham
Date:   11-20-02 06:18

Hi folks,
Tell me, is PublishAmerica for real? I\'ve got a traditonal publisher who isn\'t about to publish my earlier works. Too \"existential\" and \"realistic\" -- about grubbing in the streets of Atlanta & Baltimore back in the 1970\'s. PublishAmerica has great ad -- I pay nothing if they like the mss. That sounds too good for a POD and they sweat they\'re not a vanity press. So what\'s the angle here? Anyone had experience with them? I have a book about \"seeking nobility in an ignoble world\" -- in which my character of course goes nutz in America -- and I\'d at least like it available to those who like my regtular books. As always I remain your respectfully, Richard Lee Fulgham.

Author: Granny
Date:   11-20-02 06:55

Their books are incredibly expensive (since they pass the cost that a POD normally takes out of your pocket on to the comsumer in each book -- think about what an average POD would charge you, divide it by about 100 books and that is how much money will be tacked on each book price). Only you can decide if the market will bear that kind of price.

They have other issues, too. A search of this discussion board should prove enlightening.

Gran

Author: connybryce
Date:   11-20-02 11:13

This discussion has been done to death...I have books with PA and will try to sum it up briefly...overpriced books ($19.95 or more for most paperbacks)...no return policy so most stores won\'t order them...they try to get authors to buy books and sell them on their own and they ask for a list of family and friends to send letters to to try to sell your books...\"real\" reviewers won\'t review them, as they consider them POD/Vanity even though they technically aren\'t (you get $1 advance!)
But if you want to publish without paying, go for it. Beware- they do not EDIT AT ALL...what you send in is what is published...
That said, it is a way to get a book out there at no cost...
That's all I have!

Author: Richard Fulgham
Date:   11-20-02 12:14

Thanks, both of you. That's what I thought, though I didn't realize the specifics until I read Connie's response. I'd rather the old mss rot in a cardboard box under my bed -- which is exactly what's happening to them. Smile, anyhow -- I got a book out, so life ain't bad. I don't need no stinking badgers, or however that line goes from that Bogey movie. :-)

Author: ACCrispin
Date:   11-20-02 13:15

One thing Conny didn't mention: The PA contract is awful. Full of rights grabs and author unfriendly language.

-Ann C. Crispin

Author: Brad
Date:   11-22-02 14:47

First time we've ever discussed PA on here, right? Wonder if the board could post basic information on this outfit and spare us the endless questions on the threads about it? Hamish?

Author: Robbie Schneider
Date:   11-30-02 22:48

question about PA:
If they published one of my books, would I retain rights? That is, could I continue to query editors about said book?
just wondering, and sorry if this question sounds a bit daft.
cheers, all.

Author: Gary Kessler
Date:   11-30-02 23:04

It would be useless to query editors about your PA-published book as long as PA had the print rights tied up. This will be for a number of years and would be specified in the contract. One of the reasons PA has been vilified in the past is because--I understand--their rights to the book once was for a period of seven years. I think they have modified their standard contract downward, but it probably still specifies at least three years. And it would be useless to query editors under these conditions, because, with the print rights tied up, there wouldn't be anything for the editors to buy that would be of any use to them. (PA's contract probably ties up most, if not all, of the other rights as well.)

Beyond this, the simple reason that the book had already been published and made available for public sale would usually mean that no subsequent publisher would ever be interested in repulishing it. There have been some exceptions to this, when a whole new audience was identified for the book, but this is very rare and any author would be delusional to assume their book would be an exception.

Author: ACCrispin
Date:   12-01-02 09:50

Actually, Gary, the situation is worse than you're visualizing. If Robbie signed the OLD PA contract, the company takes ALL RIGHTS for THE DURATION OF COPYRIGHT. (Lifetime of the author plus 70 years.)

This contract was changed going on two years ago. Currently, PA takes ALL RIGHTS for a mere SEVEN YEARS. (Still unreasonable, but much better!)

Now, the situation is not all bleak. If a traditional, commercial publisher were to want to buy the book, a good lawyer could probably negotiate with PA to get out of the contract...but every time I've heard that this happened, the author had to PAY to get his/her rights back. Often they had to agree to buy up all of the "stock" PA had produced, too. This could easily mount up to a considerable sum, when you consider how expensive PA books are. (One author who contacted Writer Beware reported that it took about a thousand bucks to get the company to release their book.)

I've also heard recently that PA has gotten very stubborn about releasing books...quite a few authors have left their ranks in disgust, and this has apparently angered them. But if you're willing to throw enough money at them, my guess is that they'll let you go.

-Ann C. Crispin

Author: L Grant
Date:   12-01-02 16:06

Hi, Gary. You wrote:

>> One of the reasons PA has been vilified in the past is because--I understand--their rights to the book once was for a period of seven years. I think they have modified their standard contract downward... <<

I'm sure the unfortunates snared by PA wish that were so, but it's not. Seven years -- for a lousy buck 'advance' -- is still their M.O.

>> Beyond this, the simple reason that the book had already been published and made available for public sale would usually mean that no subsequent publisher would ever be interested in repulishing it. <<

Au Contraire. As with Hollywood these days, publishing money is more and more going to 'sure things'. One sure thing in publishing is when a self-published book has sold at or over the magic number of about 2100 copies. The deals this year alone offered to self-publishers by the very publishers who initially rejected them is quite lengthy. The latest I know of personally is an S.F. (rejected some 83 times) by a young man in his twenties, picked up last month by Random House, who coughed up six figures for it, and an additional two books to be written over the next few years. I believe the book was only out for six months before the offer, but the entire family pitched in and marketed the thing like mad. And I understand it's a good book too, which helps. :)

Best to you -- and hope you had a great T-Day!

Lisa
The Writers' Collective
www.writerscollective.org

Author: Gary Kessler
Date:   12-01-02 18:58

Lisa: I stick to my statement that very few POD-produced books will ever be picked up by traditional publishers for republication (although I too know of some that have--and have brought a few into traditional publishing houses myself). The ratio of POD-produced books that sell that "magic number of 2,100 copies" (although this is the first time I've heard such a magic number) to the total number of POD-produced books being released is so miniscule that it doesn't even appear on the percentage chart.

I don't cackle with glee when I say that; I just suggest that someone releasing their book with PA would be delusional to count on that happening to their book.

Author: L Grant
Date:   12-01-02 23:37

Gary wrote:

>> I stick to my statement that very few POD-produced books will ever be picked up by traditional publishers for republication (although I too know of some that have--and have brought a few into traditional publishing houses
myself). The ratio of POD-produced books that sell is so
miniscule that it doesn't even appear on the percentage chart. <<

Gary,

I think we're talking apples and oranges here. I agree that the percentage of self-published (a term a bit more apt, since POD only refers to one *method* of printing a book, and there are several others) books subsequently picked up by a 'tradtional' publisher is minsicule.

The ratio of applicant writers to those signed by agents: miniscule.

The ratio of agented writers signed to a decent contract with a handsome advance and guaranteed PR: miniscule.

The ratio of traditionally published books that sell over a few thousand copies: miniscule.

The ratio of writers who ever see a dime in royalties beyond an ever decreasing advance: miniscule.

The ratio of applicants to those selected as astronauts, pro ball players or first violinists with the Vienna Philharmonic: miniscule.

In other words, the ratio of true success achieved in a difficult field by those who try for it is miniscule by any reasonable measurement.

That said, I wasn't disagreeing with your numbers, only the rationale you gave for it; to wit:

>> the simple reason that the book had already been published <<

Here I demur. The fact that a book has been previously self-published doesn't *increase* the odds against being picked up - and those odds are big, as we both know - but rather decreases the odds IF the book has sold well. Traditional publishers delight in making money on other people's risk.

And what will make a book sell well, self-published or otherwise? Two things: a good book and good marketing. And frankly even the latter is often sufficient, as any of us who have been led by hype to buy a book only to discover how hollow it is can attest.

>> I don't cackle with glee when I say that <<

No, I know, believe me.

>> I just suggest that someone releasing their book with PA would be delusional to count on that happening to their book. <<

Ah... but you didn't say *that* in the post to which I responded, or I would have merely nodded in silent agreement. :) If ever there were a nail in the vanity press coffin that's buried a lot of gullible writers, PA is it. On that I'm sure we can both agree.

Best,

Lisa

Author: Gary Kessler
Date:   12-02-02 00:19

Lisa:

I use the "POD-producer" label in my posts to represent those companies like PA, iUniverse, 1stBooks, etc. that have low or no selection thresholds, use only print-on-demand techniques, and do little or no promotion of the books. I do this to avoid calling them publishers, because they really are just for-hire commercial printers with a distribution system tacked on. I try to only use "POD" or "print-on-demand" to refer to a printing process that can be used by publishers as well as POD-producers. So I really am asserting that a minisule percentage of POD-produced books sell over the 2,100-copy magic number you cite.

Also, I quite purposely do believe that having a book already self-published (if issued in preprint run) or released by a POD-producer (even if technically "self-published") is automatically seen as disadvantaged for adoption consideration by traditional publishers (although there certainly are onesy and twosy exceptions), because my experience from going to adoption meetings inside multiple traditional publishers is that this is the first negative mentioned in any reprint adoption proposal--and the book only makes it beyond that phase if the one pitching it can identify a whole new, big probable market that wasn't tried with the original release.

Author: Jen Ford
Date:   01-18-03 02:40

Hello to everyone who reads this,

I hoping someone out there could give me a new author some good information on how do you get your stories published? I have been looking at several different POD'sand I have conntacted Publish America for information on how they work with new authors. I have been careful in researching each type of publisher and I also seem to find something about them that is not author friendly. Sometimes it the contracts, royalities or the rights they bend you over on. Is there anyone out there that could recommend perhaps a reasonable POD or traditional publisher that might be willing to review a new authors stories. I have wriiten everything from childrens stories, short stories, poems, fiction and non-fiction. I am always writing about something. Probably, like a lot of you out there I have all kinds of stuff that I have written about collecting dust. Thank you for any positive insight. Jen

Author: Mr Maxwell
Date:   01-23-03 00:03

Quite true, -- mostly. The only thing you forgot to add is this:

We are living in a time in which LITERARY MERIT plays almost NO part in whether or not a new author gets published or not. It is all "who you know" or "having a name" (i.e., Victoria Gotti). ERGO, pubishers like PA give authors an alternative.

Does this mean that all their authors are "good"? Don't be absurd.

Does this mean that SOME of their authors are VERY GOOD INDEED, and writers whom you would otherwise never have known about? -- Yes. And again, YES.

Forget about the "major" publishers and thier inbred authors. Go for the small publishers who are willing to take a chance on peole whose only recommendation is their story to tell, or their manner of telling it.

Author: DaveKuzminski
Date:   06-12-03 11:43

Of course, PublishAmerica wouldn't indulge in any smear tactics as is happening at URL http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/6545.htm .

Author: pacwriter
Date:   06-13-03 22:44

to find out how great PublishAmerica is and how they REALLY treat their authors, just post something negative about PA on THEIR messageboard and see how fast it gets pulled and the author gets banned. Free speeh - not on PA
BTW - the change in the contract content came only because authors dared to complain and challenge. Many of those authors were banned.
Another thing to consider, ever hear of a PA author being published without submitting the list of Family and friends?

Author: Barbara J. Robinson
Date:   06-17-03 04:18

I am published with PA, and I'm having my second book published by them titled THE LORD HAD SOMETHING BETTER IN MIND. MAGNOLIA: A WILTING FLOWER was my first book, and it is a beautiful paperback, which can be viewed along with my web site if you check out the first book promotions on this site. My first PA book won a trophy at the Florida Writers Association (FWA) Convention in Orlando, FL, in October of 2002, and it has been getting great reviews. It is reviewed in Southern Scribe at http://www.southerscribe.com/reviews/biography-memoir/magnolia.htm and in USA Deep South at http://www.web.ms11.net/usadeepsouth/robinson.html, and I believe unless you have experience yourself with PA, it is not fair to not give them a chance. I do not regret publishing my first book with them, or I would not be doing a second one. You can negotitate on your second contract. I did not give e-book rights on my second contract, for instance. As far as getting your book out there goes, if you self publish, you pay the expenses, and if you can afford to go that route, more power to you, but for those who cannot afford the steep prices that some vanity/self publishers are out to rip writers off, PA is an opportunity that allows people who do not have the money upfront to still get their book in print in a beautiful paperback that can win awards and get good reviews, and my book is proof of this! No, my book is not perfect, and I am learning as I go, with the best teacher of all in life, experience. There are really, truth be told, no or nearly no perfect books. I am a teacher who finds mistakes in academic published books of big-name publsihers quite often. If you wait for perfect and want perfect, you may never get it. No one is perfect, and a perfect book is hard to get. I have an editor with PA for my second book, but I did not for my first book. I have learned by the mistakes I made on my first book, and I value the experience I am getting, which is going to help me be able to write a manuscript I can submit to what you call a traditional publisher one day. I have already done so, with my second book, which comes out soon, but I chose to let PA publish it, since they gave me the chance with my first book.

Author: Christopher Bonn Jonnes
Date:   06-17-03 11:29

In defense of PA ...

Most of the information in the prior threads is correct and useful. But as an author with a book with PA ("Big Ice") I would add that ...

1) They produce excellent cover art and a fine printed product.

2) They work fast: ~6 months to publication, rather than 1 to 2 years with traditional publishers.

3) Their editing is minimal--typographical, not content--but it is there.

4) Their purely symbolic $1 advance is more than all vanity presses and most traditional small presses.

5) The contract is clear: all rights for 7 years. Authors shouldn't sign it in the hopes that something better will come along and they can bail out. Compare it to some traditional publishing contracts that take rights in perpetuity. This isn't a deal with the devil, but a contract goes both ways. Go in with your eyes open.

6) PA does request a list of 100 names and addresses from the author for a promotional mailing. They pay for the paper, envelopes, postage, and labor. The mailing arrives on company letterhead and offers a discounted price. Not everyone sees this as a bad thing.

7) PA does not require or pressure authors to buy books. It can be a good way to make money, though. My first book ("Wake Up Dead") was through a traditional small press (Salvo Press). The first 2,000 books I sold through normal bookstore and online channels earned me $2,000 in royalties. With PA, I bought 200 books at a 50% discount and sold them all directly to readers in two weeks, earning the same $2,000. Obviously, this doesn't work if you have no readers.

PA has developed a business model that works for them. By churning out enough books that sell a few hundred copies each, mostly to family and friends of the author, they have figured out a way to make money (via expensively priced books) without charging the author any fees. This may be a good option for some writers. For a first timer without industry contacts or a clue on marketing books, they may be lucky to sell 100 copies. More experienced and established authors with a readership following can do much better.

For someone with a burning desire to be published but less interested in commercial success, PA is a great option; you can't beat the price. For someone trying to break into the market for the first time and hit the bestseller list, dream on.

Christopher Bonn Jonnes
Author of BIG ICE and WAKE UP DEAD
http://www.BonnJonnes.com

Author: Tim Hancock
Date:   06-21-03 02:31

Thank you Christopher and Barbara

I could not agree more. PA has my second book. I had an editor on both and was more than happy with everything. The cover and the book as a whole were outstanding in quality.

They worked closely with me and yes it took only 6 months total. Everyone listened to my suggestions and my input was readily implemented.

I never received a rejection letter. The opposite is true in fact. I reciently received an acceptance letter from a querry sent 6 months ago. However this was a moot point because I not only had a contract but also a book in production.

Do I regret signing with PA not a bit. They will most likely get my third book also. And why not. They have not let me down yet. I see no reason to change what works.

Tim Hancock Author Editor

Author: Dani
Date:   06-26-03 23:04

About two weeks ago, after months of haggling/etc -- and 10 rejection letters, each one getting more creative -- I submitted my manuscript to PublishAmerica. Yesterday morning I got the news that it had been accepted for publication, along with a copy of the sample contract for possible negotiations. I was ecstatic. I cried. I couldn't sleep.

Today I woke up, still ecstatic. But I dried my tears long enough to call my family attorney, who said that the way to get published nowadays is through an agent and he suspected this was a vanity contract. He also told me this horror story about a guy he once saw that had his book published, but there was a stipulation in his contract that he had to pay $12K and he had 10,000 books delivered to him, that he had to try to sell and distribute. The lawyer also told me to bring the sample contract with me tomorrow when I go to see him.

I fully intend to consider all options before doing this.

Author: Sandy Pfankuch
Date:   06-27-03 09:21

My manuscript has been accepted by PA and I have not yet signed anything because I am feeling it is "too good to be true." I got on the internet this morning to check and found this site, which gives much bad information about PA. You, however, sound very positive. I would appreciate your advise.

Thank you very much.

Author: Sandy Pfankuch
Date:   06-27-03 09:31

My manuscript has been accepted by PA and I have received a sample contract, which I do not intend to sign until I check this company out more thoroughly. The idea of having my book accepted seems "too good to be true," given the failure of publishers or agents to even ask to read it. What I am reading thus far on this site has been a mix of good and bad, but mostly bad. I don't want to be sucked into a poor contract just because I want to see the title of my book on an actual book cover! Does anyone out there have any current experience with these people?

Author: Nicholas Stember
Date:   07-03-03 20:19

Wow...there certainly is a lot to read here, both negative and postive....

But I will say this, Predators and Editors has usefull points, but is *very* behind the times and often has outdated information.

PublishAmerica is making new leaps into an industry dominated by a few big houses, and are offering legitimate chances to many decent authors who aren't part of the "miniscule" crowd (as another post mentioned).

Take it or leave it (I took it and have been quite pleased)...but the contract is neither misleading nor entraping. It is very easy to understand and is not unreasonable.

As for the writer who would rather let his old manuscripts rot under his bed... all I can do is shake my head at that. If the stories are good and even if only a few would enjoy them through a print on demand publisher...isn't it better that they inspire and enthrall those few readers, rather than the bugs under your bed? ~smile~ If they are truly the fine works you say, then let others enjoy them...

Thank you...

Author: Dave Kuzminski
Date:   07-03-03 22:06

I find it interesting that anyone should state that Preditors & Editors (tm) has outdated information, especially when the site is updated daily. How many others are even updated weekly, let alone daily? What's more, P&E has been in operation for seven years on the Internet. There aren't many sites that old, let alone still actively managed.

Admittedly, some listings are out of date, but there are only so many that can be revisited each day by a limited staff in order to prepare updates. As a result, P&E relies upon its visitors to voluntarily pass on information so that it can be current since it is operated for their benefit.

As for PublishAmerica, its new leaps into publishing are nothing more than the corporatization of Hare Krishnas, only instead of sending its authors to the airports with their books, many of their authors end up selling their books to family members and close friends. One small note in PublishAmerica's favor is that they don't make their authors wear colorful robes and shave their heads.

Author: Dr. Larry J. Crabb
Date:   07-05-03 21:43

I want to thank Around The Mulbery Bush for verifying what my patent attorney told me about PA., after he read their contract. Yes, I was asked by PA to send them 4 chapters, a Bio, a synopsis and why I thought the book would sell. How do I know why my book would sell? If they liked the book, I thought they were supposed to do that, but I was mistaken. However, they also made a big mistake by asking me for all this information only one day after I E-mailed my query. I felt, then, like I was a hooked fish. They were casting and I bit. They were merely too fast on the draw. They should have "played" me a little longer. Believe me. It was too good to be true, literally. I was so happy for five minutes. Then, I thought about it. That's when I called my personal lawyer and he referred me to an expert attorney on the matter. The contract is so ambiguous (Part 20) that my new attorney could barely translate it. If anyone wants to read their contract, all you have to do is to send a letter of inquery. You'll get one back the same day. These people sound more like "sharks" than publishers. Beware! PA can sell your book to an unknown agent, then pocket 90% the money. Then, you have someone else to deal with. Think about that.

Author: David Gardiner
Date:   07-11-03 18:51

Anybody who wants to read some up to date and accurate information on the way PublishAmerica treats its authors should visit here:
http://www.ukauthors.com/modules.php?name=Journal&file=display&jid=979

Author: David Gardiner
Date:   08-08-03 03:11

My contract with PublishAmerica to publish my short story collection: "The Rainbow Man and Other Stories" has been dissolved amicably. This collection will now be published by the British publisher Bluechrome under its Boho imprint. I wish to withdraw any statement that I have made which might be judged defamatory of PublishAmerica.

Author: mark york
Date:   08-09-03 11:03

PA really is a bad deal. The books are shanghaied for seven years and it is very doubtful any will sell. The "brick and mortar" line is a scam. I pressed them on it and they admitted as much. I had to convince individual Barnes & Nobles to carry my book. Good luck with that with the PA no returns policy. They did turn down my latest work in American History, but only for vindictive reasons. I kept them waiting for several months after submitting the proposal. PA is only interested in the most naive writers, but with no fee to publish it's easy to fall for. Stay away.

Author: lacegirl
Date:   08-16-03 18:25

conny,
thank you very much for speaking out about PA. I just got an email back from them accepting my query and wanting to see the full manuscript and i sent it to them via email. ill think twice if they accept it.

Author: Pete
Date:   08-21-03 11:40

I appreciate all this consideration of PublishAmerica. My mss. has been accepted and I have received the sample contract, but am wavering, even more now having read these messages. What else is left to an unknown in such a difficult field? Is iUniverse better than PA then? Any suggestions for you who warn against PA?

Author: Lisa Grant
Date:   08-21-03 13:10

On 8/21, Pete wrote:

> My mss. has been accepted and I have received the sample contract, but am wavering, even more now having read these messages. What else is left to an unknown in such a difficult field? Is iUniverse better than PA then? Any suggestions for you who warn against PA? <

Dear Pete,

What a good question. While it's been clearly established (for all but those who've been sucked into their maw) that PA is a but a vanity press very thinly disguised, there really hasn't been a good discussion -- at least not on this topic -- about other means to *legitimately* self-publish. Thanks for asking; it finally brought me out of lurk mode again, where I've been for the last six months.

And in the interest of self-disclosure, let me state at the outset that I'm the founder and executive director of The Writers' Collective -- or what I like to think of as the Anti-PA/iUniverse/X-Libris-world.

I'm not going to talk a lot about us here (you can read that for yourself by going to our site and besides, with our acceptance rate now only about 1 in 10 a lot of nice folks on this list would simply not meet our criteria) but I would like to reiterate my earlier posts that one *can* successfully self-publish without resorting to any of the establishments mentioned above.

However, there are several caveats, the most important being: you reap what you sow.

All prospective TWC members must agree that they will do for themselves everything that Random House would do for them if they were publishing their book, to wit:

That they will have their book professionally edited, typeset, indexed (in the case of non-fiction); will either use one of our customizable cover templates or a professional designer, and that they will send real galleys with real sell-sheets to reviewers three to four months prior to actual publication. And of course, that they will have a real marketing plan with a real budget.

Doing all that costs real money - but that's what it takes to publish real books that will be taken real seriously. :)

All of our books must meet the highest production quality standards, and as a result, our imprint has built a reputation that is zealously guarded.

Our books are reviewed (one by the NY Times last week). Our books sell. This week's purchase order from our wholesaler totals over $5000. I expect a similar one to arrive next week, and an even higher total a few weeks after that.

And our books are now being sought after by 'traditional' publishers, for mass market paperback rights. I'm negotiating some of the deals on a few member's behalf myself for those few who actually want to move in that direction. Choice is good.

Which brings me back to where I began: there are viable alternatives to the 'sell-to-family-and-friends-only' publishing universe, and if you're ready to work hard, learn a lot and basically go into business for yourself (capital in hand), you can find them.

While wishing everyone here the very best of success with their books, I remain

Sincerely,

Lisa Grant
The Writers' Collective
lisag (@writerscollective.net)

Author: C M Hegberg
Date:   08-26-03 13:40

Did you ever heard anything more about PublishAmerica's reputation? Let me know.

Author: anthony ph.
Date:   09-16-03 15:45

I found PA on the internet and I have to admit that they look good. Is that the Jamie Farr from Mash that's really listed on the site? Let me tell you of my publishing adventure..I signed with Commonwealth Pub..of Canada in '97. In 1998 they went out of business and I never got to see any of my 2 published children's picture books. To this day they are listed on the internet at several places and I have never seen them or made a dime off of them. I submitted an idea to PA and the only thing that they told me was that I had to submit with illustrations. I then thought that I should check this site as I obtained info on Commonwealth..from this site.. I really want to get published and PA seems like it might be the publisher that I have been looking for.. Please bear in mind that these are children's books with illustrations.. Any advice at all regarding anything in this posting is more than welcome.

Author: Mister Stupid
Date:   09-19-03 14:03

I signed up with PublishAmerica, be, kind and call me Mister stupid!
Don't do it! They don't care about your book. They earn their money with the ego's of novice writers like me.
You have to edit and sell your own book. And you will not be able to go to another publisher for seven years.

So, if anyone out there knows a way out? Please tell me!
I really want te get out of that contract.
And I tell you, this will never happen again!!!!

Author: Mister Stupid
Date:   09-19-03 14:06

Unfortunatly, you can not sell your book for 7 years after signing the contract. The copyrights are yours though, but your contract states that you give PA exclusive rights.

I guess you and I have to wait!!!
(yes, I signed up too, hence my name!)

Author: Norman Francis Fagan
Date:   09-26-03 01:47

Dear Tim Hancock: I have been offered a contract with PA, I've never been published and have no following, my cash flow is low and non existened. Did you pay for their editing services, or did you contract out. As for the part about having a hundred names is that mandatory, I'd be lucky if I could come up with half that. I've already been burned by a bad agent, I don't wish to be burned by a bad publisher, but my dream of being published is great, I've written dozens of short stories, sci-fi, and I'm writing my first book. But what's the point if I can find a honest publisher. Thanks for listening

Author: Dr. davis
Date:   09-29-03 21:35

What did your family attorney say about your contract I read your statement on w.n.d.f.concerning PA. They asked me to send them a manuscript I don't have one I have a book. I am a published author who's publishing company went under and now I am looking for a new book deal. Also
Thomas Nelson sent me a copy of a book proposal format and asked me to send them a book proposal for review. should I wait for the big boys to contact me or go with PA? I am really nerves about this I don't react well to some one ripping me off I have put a lot of companies out of business in my past for ripping me off through law suits. I am the kind of person who will work three jobs and give a good attorney every dime and live on the street just to get a company's head on a dish with salt and pepper. I would make it my mission in life to have them put out of business. If they ripped me off and make sure they never rip me off again and no one else I have attorney's who drink blood in the morning looking for someome to sue that is there speciality and I am glad I can call them friends. So I am writing you to help me make the right turn in my life i am 56 years old and I can not afford to make anymore mistakes in my life. Now is PA real good or not if they are I will take your word for it and if they turn out to be crooks it is not on you the Wrath of God will be on them believe me. I live in a condo building with some very interesting neighbor and we have card parties and talk about who should and who should not be in business. Two are attorneys two are IRS investigators and a Rabbi with unique connections in state governments. And they like me wish is rare they don't like a lot of people. But enough already I don't know what to do here who can tell me waht to do here anybody I value your imput.

Author: Dr. davis
Date:   09-29-03 21:31

And they like me which is rare

Author: Dr. davis
Date:   09-29-03 21:49

I JUST TALKED TO MY RABBI FRIEND IN THE BUILDING AND HE SAYS THAT HE BETS ME A BAG OF GRAPES THAT ALL OF YOU PEOPLE WHO ARE PRAISING PA ARE SITTING IN THERE OFFICES ON THE TOP FLOOR WITH PIZZA AND BEER ANSWERING ALL THE NEGATIVE STUFF ABOUT PA TO MAKE THEM LOOK GOOD SO THEY CAN KEEP THERE COMPANY GOING... WAIT A MINUTE RABBI GOLDSTEIN WANTS TO SAY SOMETHING... YAH HEY YOU GUYS AND GALS ON THE TOP FLOOR OVERDA WHAT YOU DOING TO GOD'S PEOPLE DON'T YOU KNOW YOU ARE BEING WATCHED WHATCHA DOIN TO THIS BOYS MIND OVERDA WHY TRYING TO MAKE THIS COMPANY LOOK GOOD HOW MUCH YOU GETTIN PAID OVERDA I'LL DOUBLE YOUR SALARY IF JUST ONES OF YA E-MAIL ME AT worldarbitrator1@aol.com and tell me the truth about this PA company are they for real overda? I'll send you names and addresses of companys that will hire you right now just because I told you to contact them. Just e-mail me and tell me the truth overda. here doc,sorry about that he's a friend that just don't believe in people only God and the folks in our building. All i want to know is can I really trust these folks?

Author: Juan Montoya
Date:   09-30-03 09:41

Dear Mr. Kuzminski:

It's not so much that the information on Preditors and Editors is out of date; the problem I have is with its usefulness. Last time I checked, (about 10 days ago) over 700 entries were listed under book publishers. Of these, 100 were not recommendeed and only 32 were. Since most aspiring novelists would like to find a publishing company that is recommended by seasoned pros in the field, I looked carefully at the 32 with which your group found favor. I discovered that 12 were publishers of Ebooks, 5 were publishers of science fiction, 3 were companies that had broken links or had folded, 1 was a book packager, 6 were "giants" like Random House which don't really need anyone's recommendation, 1 was a romance publisher, 1 published limited editions only, 1 published African American authors only, 1 was a listing of other publishers, and 1 was by agent only.

While I appreciate the intended purpose of your website, for me, someone who writes mainstream fiction, there isn't one company you recommended to whom I could logically make a submission. Also, to include a company on your list of book publishers and follow it with no comment other than "a book publishing company" makes one wonder why you'd bother to list them in the first place.

Author: Mr. Stupid #2
Date:   10-02-03 08:27

Publish America.

I wish someone had warned me about PA before I signed a contract.

As a published author with PA, DON'T DO IT.

My so called editor ruined my book. PA turned my dream turned into a nightmare.

You are told up front that they will not market the book.
The contract does state "in the opinion of the publisher
if the ms needs editing"

If you get no editing from them, you are one of the lucky ones.

After paying the ridiculous price they charge for a paperback and paying an outside editor, it would have been cheaper and it would have been done right.


Mr. Stupid #2

Author: Michael Alexander
Date:   10-03-03 12:59

Barbara -- I just read your comments online about "PublishAmerica." Congratulations on your success with your last two books. I just have a few questions. P/A's Acquisitions Department just accepted "my" first submission for publication. However, I have read (from other authors who've dealt with the publisher) that P/A expects their authors to provide them with an extensive list of friends and relatives whom they solicit to buy your book (thus recouping their production costs); that their contract holds right to the book for seven years; and that they charge exorbitantly high prices for non-returnable paperback books...somewhere in the neighborhood of $20 per unit. Was this your experience as such? This sounds like a vanity press dressed in sheep's attire to me. I'd appreciate any feedback you can offer me before I sign up with the outfit. Thanks. -- Michael Hobren

Author: Ancient
Date:   10-10-03 15:49

Look, PA is just a form of Print On Demand self-publishing. Its rare quality is that, unlike most POD self-publishers, they charge $0 instead of $200-$2,000 for your "set-up." So if you want to self-publish a Print on Demand Book, why not choose a company that charges nothing?

The real question here seems to be--is self-publishing in and of itself a scam? Does self-publishing--in and of itself--disqualify you as a "real" writer?

Because let's face it--the chances of most people ever getting published with a traditional publisher are slim to none for MOST writers. So your book is tied up for 7 years. If you think a traditional publisher would want to pick it up, why not submit it to a traditional publisher to begin with? If you don't think a traditional publisher will ever pick it up, then tying it up for 7 years is no big deal. What's the alternative? 7 years in a desk drawer? 7 years and $700 in postage to get 700 rejections?

PA doesn't give you much--but they give you a service at a cost of $0. The only question you have to ask yourself is--Is this service worth $0? Since it costs nothing, you weigh non-tangible costs and benefits. What will be the cost to your reputation as a writer if you publish with PA? What will be your opportunity cost (i.e. what's your chance of future traditional publication)? How much are you likely to earn in royalties? Say you earn $5 in royalties only. That's still $5 more than you paid to be published, plus you can look at your book in print. But if you have a real chance of a writing career, $5 and a book to look at certainly isn't worth damaging your reputation. And that is my question. Would publishing with PA damage a writer's reputation?

Author: Janyce Van Es
Date:   10-17-03 21:30

First, you need to look at your written work after you write it. You don't have a clue upstairs on correct grammar and punctuation. You don't make sense when you write something for someone else to read and if your manuscripts are written like that, you obviously need an editor or proof reader before you submit you stuff to ANYONE!!!!!
Just have to be honest. Sorry.

Author: Christina
Date:   10-19-03 14:55

I was published by PA, but my story is TRULY bad ! I actually had an agent get me the contract. I had no idea how anything worked in the publishing world and she told me the contract was not a great first book contract, but it was a good one. She promised me the book would be a hardback and even said PublishAmerica was a subsidiary of Random House. (I have all of this in writing from her.) My book is a young adult novel - I was given a choice of exactly one cover. It is a nice cover - for an adult book. It was advertised on their site and is on Amazon, etc. as an adult book. Neither the agent nor publisher responded to my complaints about this book being presented in the incorrect genre. The sorriest part of the story is that a friend called to tell me she bought the book and it did not sound at all like me. Upon further investigation, she noticed that someone else's book had been put in my cover and sent out as my book. The agent claimed PA promised to notify everyone who had purchased my book to announce they may have the wrong book. They, of course, did nothing of the sort. The contract has a clause that the author cannot sue PA no matter how bad or stupid they are. The good news for me is that I own the characters and scenes in the book - the author retains the copyright in their name, so I can go on to use them in other books in the series. And - I am not a one book wonder - I did not bank my entire writing career on this one book. After a year of rejections by agents, I am now submitting to small presses. I am writing every day and have not let this experience sour my aspirations. Two positive things that came out of this are that I can now say is that I am a published author and I did not spend a penny out of my own pocket to produce the book (although I did have to purchase the copyright, do a lot of work to create a marketing package, and I had photos taken for my book jacket). Live and learn - and don't look back !!

Author: FranW
Date:   10-22-03 21:28

Juan Montoya et al

You've asked what your alternatives are for getting published, if you (wisely) rule out Publish America as well as the more obvious scammers.

It's not easy to get published. The vast majority of books that are written do not get published -- mostly because these books are written very badly by amateurs who have not made the effort to learn their craft or to behave like professionals.

The average Joe on the street has probably seen thousands of dresses...but would he decide he could design clothes, and sew his own version of the Perfect Cocktail Frock, and then be greatly offended when fashion buyers didn't snatch it up? The average Jane has probably watched thousands of movies, but would she decide she could act as well or better than (insert name of famous actor) and then throw a fit when no Hollywood agent leaped at the opportunity to get her a screening for Steven Spielburg's next movie? No, of course not. So why do so many otherwise sensible people think they can write a novel simply because they've read some - and then get offended when Random House or whoever sends them a form rejection?

Your best bet is to 1) create a professional piece of work and 2) submit it like a professional.

1) Learn how to write. Write. Read. Learn what is required by your particular genre. Read more. Read how-to-write books. Read fiction. Read nonfiction. Write more. Workshop your stories. Join a writing group. Learn to accept and utilise constructive criticism. Don't assume that just because you wrote it, or just because you spent a lot of time on it, it must therefore be good. Frankly, it's probably not.

2) Use something like Writer's Market to find publishers who publish in your genre. Use the AAR listings to find reputable agents. =Read their guidelines= and send them =only what they ask for=. Don't ship them a five hundred page manuscript if they say "query first." Don't send a science fiction novel to an agent who only reps romance novelists. Learn from your mistakes.

$0.02

F

Author: Madhavi
Date:   10-28-03 20:28

I'm starting to get a really bad taste in my mouth with regard to PA. Your information regarding PA's practices serves as a nice mouthwash,though.
I never sat around dreaming of writing a novel or writing for some magazine. It never even occurred to me that writing would be something I would ever do. With this preface and with the respect due to every author who loves his/her craft and is published or unpublished, I'd like to describe, briefly, what has occurred thus far with PA and ask a few questions.

I have belonged to a Yahoo group for people who play a pc game called The Sims. Over the past two years or so, we have become close "virtual friends" and, as such, have shared our lives on an intimate basis. We joke and have a great deal of fun.

When I was asked how I became a monk (not your usual type of monk,by the way,) I responded by telling them a story in an installment-like fashion. The Group refers to these installments as sagas. The group enjoyed them immensely and clamored for more, so I continued writing them and posting them on our group page. One of the members even put the first nine sagas on a web page for others to read.

At their urging, I submitted the first nine sagas to PA. Within a week or so I received a response and a request for the rest of the mss, which was not yet completed. I continued to write and a couple or three weeks later received an email with the contract that has been so widely discussed here, and another request for the completed manuscript.

What I really want your opinion about is this: Do they just print anything from anyone, regardless of whether its worth printing?

What I wrote came from playfulness and joy and my experiences as a kid. I think that's why people liked what they read. I am definitely not a trained professional writer. I just have a great time doing it. I'm a monk and have no funds, at all, to self-publish.

How do I go about finding out if what I've written is any good at all, apart from the fact that these folks love it?

And if it is determined, by whatever source you might mention, that this manuscript is "good," where, who and how in the world does one go about promoting it?

Most appreciatively,
A Babe in the Woods

Author: FranW
Date:   10-29-03 16:48

Madhavi:
PA does not have the reputation of being highly selective with regards to writing quality. From what I can tell, they will print anything as long as they think they can make a few bucks =from the writer and his friends= on it.

There are any number of sites on the web that discuss writing -- how to create characters, how to write dialogue, how to write so as to create an enjoyable reading experience for the reader. Ditto for how-to-write books; most public or university libraries will stock some.

There are several on-line writing workshops you can join, where you can submit your work and get feedback on it from readers who vary from beginners to professional writers -- try Orson Scott Card's Hatrick site (did I get that name right?) or Critters.org (if you write spec fic, I highly recommend this one). The Critters site also has links to a lot of how-to-write sites.

There is also advice on the web (at the above sites, and elsewhere) as well as in books (again, remember, the library is your friend!), which can help you with writing a synopsis and/or a query letter. Web and library are also good sources for lists of AAR-qualified agents and publishing houses. I know you said you don't have money to publish, but if you can afford a few stamps, you can query agents or publishers and get feedback from them (yes, a form rejection can be considered a form of feedback!) regarding whether or not they would consider your work to be publishable. If it's not, you can work on improving it. If it is, the publisher will buy it, publish it, and promote it for you.

Remember, there are very few things for which the =concept= or =type of work= isn't acceptable; 99 times out of a hundred, it is the =quality of writing= that elicits the rejection letter. And anyone can learn to improve the quality of their writing, if they're willing to put the time into it.

$0.02

F

Author: Madhavi
Date:   10-29-03 21:36

Fran:
Thank you very much for taking the time to respond to my post. Your
email is clear and thoughtful, and I appreciate the time, care and
information in it. I feel like I've been saved from making an awful
mistake. I will definitely follow through on your advice.
Again, many, many thanks!
Madhavi

Author: FranW
Date:   10-30-03 13:44

Madhavi

People have many different reasons for writing, submitting, and publishing. If you are writing solely for your own enjoyment, and want nothing more than a single bound copy of your own writing (for pleasure or reference), then any print-on-demand place can do this for you. The cost can vary widely. Presumably, if you went with PA, it'd get done for you for free, but I'm not sure they would take on your project if you made clear to them your intentions; nor am I sure you would be comfortable "lying" to them and pretending you hope to sell dozens of copies of your book to your friends and family, in order to convince PA to take you on.

If you are writing and hope to be published professionally so as to earn $$$, then why not send your stuff to the highest paying market? The worst they can do is reject it -- so then you send it to the next highest paying market; and in the meantime, while you're waiting for your acceptance/rejection letter, you write another story. For instance, if you write novel-length science fiction, you can send your book to Tor, Baen, or DAW, for nothing more than the cost of postage. If they reject it, you move on. If they accept it, you'll probably get an advance in the region of $5000 -- which is a lot better than the $1 that PA offers.

Writing workshops, either on-line or face-to-face, can be invaluable. Unbiased feedback is very helpful in letting you see what does and does not work for a reader. If you wander around the web, and check out the personal newsgroups of professional writers who write in your genre, you are likely to run across somebody who is willing to look at your work and give you a helping hand. Writers are, on the whole, a very nice and caring bunch, and will go overboard to help a new writer who has a positive attitude, who is willing to accept constructive criticism, and who is dedicated to learning his craft.

$0.02
F

Author: Mark York
Date:   10-30-03 21:50

Alternatives? Complaints have been filed at the Maryland AG, the ftc and Dateline is doing a story on them. The complaints are really piling up. One guy actually bought the 49 copies and has evidence they were printed after the fact. Meiners is toast.

Author: Madhavi
Date:   10-30-03 22:06

Holy Moly!!! I feel a cool breeze blowin' just behind my derriere and it ain't from biting a York's Peppermint Bar either! To think how close I came to signing with that outfit. (brrrr) or should I say, grrrr?

This site and you kind folks have saved me
so much grief.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Author: belita rennicks
Date:   11-01-03 00:57

I hAVE ONE BOOK PUBLISHED BY PA, ONE UNDER CONTRACT AND ANOTHER HAS JUST BEEN ACCEPTED. I KNOW A NEWBE HAS TO DO SOME OF THEIR OWN ADVERTISING, BUT THAT IS NOT SO STRANGE WE ARE UNKNOWN TO THE WORLD. IF YOU WANT TO BE PUBLISHED DOES IT REALLY MATTER WHO PUBLISHES THAT FIRST BOOK. YOU GET TO BECOME A REAL AUTHOR. AS FOR BEING TRAPPED TRUE YOU HAVE A CONTRACT, DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT BIG PUBLISHING HOUSES REQUIRE A CONTRACT. AND YOU CAN ALWAYS SEND FUTURE BOOKS TO OTHER PUBLISHERS IF YOU WANT. I ASSUME YOU PLAN TO WRITE MORE THAN ONE.

Author: Yucatangirl
Date:   11-07-03 15:34

Can anyone advise on getting an agent? I write children's books and most large houses won't deal with authors - just agents! Thanks!

Author: Yucatangirl
Date:   11-07-03 15:34

Can anyone advise on getting an agent? I write children's books and most large houses won't deal with authors - just agents! Thanks!

Author: FranW
Date:   11-11-03 17:19

Yucatangirl:
You can find here

http://www.writelinks.com/Creative/Links/LiteraryAgents/crea06_01.htm

a list of agents. Choose ones that are AAR members and that accept children's fiction. Submit per their requirements (query letter, etc).

Author: a novelist
Date:   11-12-03 21:29

I'm a little known writer with my first book about to be published by PA. They offered me a chance to break into the business without having to deal with vanity publishers. I thank them for that. Also, I've completed the screenplay for the story. It has been optioned for review by three major production company's.

Here's the kicker...Had PA not provided me an opportunity to become an author...I would not have become a screenplay script writer...It's that simple. You have to start somewhere and where you start can open doors. Most of the negative comments I have read about PA stream from insecurities, not reality. PA offers a easy to read contract. You either want to become an author or not...If you do...sign it...if you aren't sure, don't sign it.

Author: Thomas Weston
Date:   11-17-03 20:04

I have recently completed my new novel, "Mavis and the Painted Ladies." An exciting 70,500 word supernatural/horror thriller...caustic, cynical, irreverent, erotic, and sardonic. Every day my mailbox receives 4-10 form letter reponses (in my SASE, of course)from self-important, elitist, $#@*!#$ -holes who are too busy with full client lists. The only winner here is the Post Office that sells stamps while I'm ready to eat Kennel Ration. One NY agent asked for the manuscript, and within a week he wrote that after careful consideration and consultations with his associates he'd decided that they already had too many clients. He's either quite a speed reader or he's full of processed Kennel Ration. Enter Publish America...what the hell should I do? Putting a manuscript of the quality of Mavis and the Painted Ladies in a box under the bed is out of the question. That would be denying the readers of America a great opportunity at self-enrichment; my high ethical standards could never allow that (OK, so I'm after the money!) Yeah, PA sounds like a lousy deal...but what I'm going through now is not great either. Can someone throw me a lifeline? Pleeze.

Author: FranW
Date:   11-18-03 14:19

Thomas

1) Consider targeting only agents that state somewhere in their guidelines "yes, we are now accepting new clients."

2) Consider changing your query letter -- perhaps there is something in the query letter that is "putting off" the agents, or perhaps it does not sufficiently represent the type of book you are trying to sell.

3) Consider workshopping your novel, if you have not done so, to get some unbiased feedback. It may be that the prose or storyline is in need of some revision before it will be considered "publishable" by an agent/editor. As you said your novel was supernatural horror, I'd suggest Critters (www.critters.org). The workshop has about 2000 members, ranging from beginning writers to seasoned professionals, who will critique a portion of your novel, or the entire thing, for free. They don't know you, they don't have any vested interest in either hurting your feelings or stroking your ego, so they'll simply tell you plainly and honestly what they like about your story, what they don't like, what they thought might be a problem, how you might fix the problem, etc.

4) While Painted Ladies is making the rounds, write another book. When that second book gets accepted by a publisher, they may want to take Painted Ladies as well.

Author: Travis
Date:   11-20-03 18:06

I am a first time writer who has been accepted by PA.
I have read all that has been written about PA and still plan on signing with them. If possible I would like to hear of any success stories concerning this company.

Author: FranW
Date:   11-20-03 20:33

Define "success."

Author: John Schmoyer
Date:   11-24-03 11:57

Anthony,

WOW! I too sent MSS to COmmonwealth they took it as well as my subsidy $$$ and then proceeded to go bankrupt. SO I am now very skeptical about publishers . Yes PA sounds too good and they are putting on the full court press to sign - and with all the messages posted both negative and positive (makes your head hurt reading them all). It sounds like if you have family - friends - co-workers - Other (which is the list I scribbled out the other night) and if you don't really care about best seller lists and Prostituting yourself to peddle your book - then, as my friend said - Go Fo It! - I need some more help in deciding though

Author: Eliza
Date:   11-24-03 14:50

I am a PA author. I can say I know what I'm talking about. They don't answer e-mails that aren't absolutely positive. They don't call back--even book stores wishing to place orders. I know because I also requested several times for them to call a book store which had given up in frustration trying to contact them. I lost numerous sales and even a book signing because they are not willing to check with their printer to make sure that the books they "publish" are actually getting printed to fill the orders. There is a celebrity that has recently published with them and they are pushing him big. I still wonder if his books are getting taken care of with the same "care" that others are. I have talked with other authors who are not getting any better treatment than I am. I'm so glad someone is getting awards (though that isn't why I write) and has the option of a second book. How did you do it? I publicized the heck out of my book, but it will only go so far if they aren't available. By the time they do show up. everyone involved has forgotten about it. Don't get me started on the price, which I am blamed for and have no control over.

Author: Randall C. Hale
Date:   12-04-03 20:10

I read with interest the various emails concerning Publish America. I notice that many hate the company and many love the company.
I am a novice author. Publish America published my first book. Presently I have a second book being published by PA. Yes, I believe the prices charged for a paperback book to be high. I also believe that the company wants to recover costs involved in publishing the book as soon as possible. That is normal for any publisher. It takes money to operate a business.
Yes, I had to do some editing with my books, but that is normal for most publishing companies. I learned a great deal from the experience. It showed me many common mistakes and how many errors I actually made. Although not all the mistakes made were mine, I did make the majority of the mistakes. Can I, or should I expect perfection from Publish America? No.
Yes, I have had a few problems with one or two persons at Publish America. During the week that my book was released, I posted questions on the author's message board inquiring as to the reason or reasons for my book not being posted on the Publish America This Weeks New Releases web page or the "other current releases web page." I also asked for an explanation as to why I could not find the book in bookstore databases. I asked Publish America what was going on when I was told that I could not qualify for a book signing because my book is a POD. A few PA authors attacked me through the message board and I ignored the attacks. Those that attack over questions asked are on the defensive and know that they have done something wrong or do not know what is truly happening. These authors are all caught up in the Fear, Intimidation and Coercion template that I expose in my first book.
The answer I received from Author Support at Publish America was that my book was in fact posted on the New Releases web page. I can read, and I can see, and at no time did my book appear on Publish America's This Weeks New Releases web page. The week my book was released, I checked three or four times daily. I checked daily the weeks prior to the release date and for several weeks after the release date. I informed Author Support of these facts. I did not receive a reply to that last email. I am still upset that my book was not posted on Publish America's This Weeks New Releases web page and that I had been lied to concerning that fact. Publish America also "quoted" the standard explanation concerning POD that Publish America provides to all authors on its web site. The bookstore manager did not accept that explanation and stated that their organization does not do book signing for POD books. Yet, other Publish America authors have had book signings through this same book chain. Obviously, something is wrong.
Does this mean that Publish America is a bunch of insensitive scumbags that do not care? I do not believe so, nor do I think so. I believe that mistakes are made. The people who work at Publish America are human. I believe that either someone made a mistake and tried to cover up the error with lies, or my book is being censored. I do not believe that any publisher would deliberately censor a book that they had just published, unless forced to do so by outside forces. Considering the books content, and considering the numerous odd coincidences and experiences during the books writing, then I cannot rule out censorship.
I have no idea if Publish America did any advertising concerning my book other than the letters sent to friends and relatives. Publish America says they do advertising, except it is left up to the author to advertise his/her book locally. I have to take their word concerning the advertisement they claim to do even though I have already caught one PA employees in the lie concerning This Weeks New Releases web page.
I bought 50 books for advertisement purposes. I made phone calls to newspapers and radio stations and asked for the names and mailing addresses of the individuals that performed book reviews. I then mailed 15 books to newspapers and 2 books to radio stations along with a press release. To date, not one has published or announced the press release. When I did follow-ups via phone inquires most book editor responses were not very encouraging.
The local Barnes & Noble, Walden Books and a locally owned Christian bookstore refused to let me do a book signing. The local Barnes and Noble stated they no longer do book signing. I know this to be bogus. Walden Books refused because my book is a POD publication. I never heard from the locally owned Christian bookstore manager nor could I contact him. Are these refusals due to anything that Publish America's did? I think not.
I spent approximately $1300 in advertising through a classified add paper. I handed out over 200 individual flyers. I had bookmarks printed at great expense and gave them to the bookstores to give to people that purchased any book. I had business cards printed and hand them out to people that I meet. I have personally spent several thousand dollars advertising my book locally and throughout the state, but from all appearances, it has been nothing but wasted time, effort, and money. I have played the game the way I was instructed to play the game. From the way things are going, perhaps my book does not have what it takes to make it in the book world.
Publish America has not provided any information concerning book sales. One bookstore did order a few books, but the last I heard, they had not received the books ordered. Is the fact that the books have not been provided to the bookstore Publish America's doing? I think so since it is Publish America that does the publishing. I will not truly know how the book is actually doing until I see the first royalty check.
Apart from all these things, my perception is that Publish America IS trying to provide new and unknown authors a chance that is not normally provided within a system designed to exclude most authors and their works. That system is also designed to exclude most publishers and the books they publish. In order to accomplish this, those books and publishers have been given labels such as POD, vanity books, vanity publisher, etc. Many great works, authors, and publishers are excluded due to those POD label and vanity labels. Is this Publish America's fault? I think not.
My perception is, that the book publishing industry has been transformed in design to exclude certain authors and publishers, and Publish America is doing what it can to break the hold and the advantages that a few large publishing companies in the industry have gained through that transformation.
Concerning the Publish America contract, no one forces an author to sign the contract. It is the author's responsibility to either accept the conditions in the contract or negotiate the contract conditions. After numerous agent non-replies and rejection letters, and many publisher non-replies to query letters mailed, and the ridiculous prices charged by many "vanity" publishers, I was happy to hear about and be accepted by Publish America. I could not look a gift horse in the mouth.
As a novice author, I knew that I did not have any negotiating clout, so I accepted the contract conditions as written. I wanted to get word out to people as to what is truly happening to them within the system that has been created. Publish America provided that opportunity when no other publisher was willing to do so. Will the book be a best seller? Most likely not, because the way the entire system is designed, it makes it virtually impossible, but who knows, any book can become a best seller. I can always have faith and hope that the book will do well. If the book doesn't do well, that is not really the Publishers fault. If a book's subject matter is an interest to people, then word of mouth can be the best advertisement, although it make take time for the book to be a success.
Like all businesses, the Publishing industry is designed to make money and is based on Greed. The Publishing industry, like everything else in the system is designed to exclude. Ninety-nine percent of authors and their works are never read or heard about, and few are published. The one-percent that becomes known is accomplished mostly through someone the author knows or a family member. A small number get lucky and are permitted into THEIR system. This is all part of the system that is in place everywhere and is discussed in my two books.
I have read some books that were best sellers or were number-one on the best seller list that I thought terrible. How did these books become best sellers? Someone or something was behind the book getting great reviews, great advertisement, media recognition, etc. Very few authors or their works reach this point without the author knowing someone influential already in the business or through family members that know someone in the business.
Those at Publish America take pride in the claim that it "treats all it's authors equally." The equality ends with the contract. Most authors with Publish America come to realize this fact. It is the same with any publisher. It took a full year to get my first book published. One author stated it took six months. Is that equal? I think not. Do all the authors with Publish America believe that the treatment they receive is the same or equal to the treatment that the author and actor Jamie Farr receives? I think not.
How many authors at Publish America have had their names or books advertised on the Publish America Home Page for over three consecutive months? How many authors at Publish America have had their names or their books on the Publish America Home page for even a week? I venture to say very few.
It is important that Publish America be advertised in order to break the hold that the few large publishing companies have over the publishing industry. How many authors can provide publicity for Publish America on television? I venture to say very few. One that can is named Jamie Farr and he can do this through Hollywood Squares. Jamie Farr can put Publish America's name before the public through Hollywood Squares and at the same time get national advertisement for his own book. This is not saying anything adverse against Publish America or Jamie Farr. That is just the way it is in the entire publishing industry.
The entire political/religious system in place in this world is not designed to be fair or equal, and anyone that says different is lying. The system in place is designed to make money, and it is designed to intimidate, coerce, divide, conquer, and instill fear in those that question the system from those that don't question. Those that question are intimidated into quitting.
The methodology, the tools and the templates in use to accomplish these things are exposed in my book The Enemy Called "They" which IS a Publish America publication.
So, for new authors that want a chance to see their book published, Publish America can provide that opportunity. If you do not like the contract conditions, do not sign and look for another publisher with a better contract. Good luck.
If Publish America accepts an author's work and the author signs the contract, will it be a bed made from roses? No, a bed of roses still has thorns and there will be problems that have to be overcome. And, it will require work, co-operation, and diligence by the both the author and those employees working for Publish America to help in developing a book that can be provided the chance to be a success.

Randall C. Hale
Novice Author
The Enemy Called "They"
Between The Rock and The Hard Place

Author: Larry Mccrea
Date:   12-07-03 13:11

Randall...You are precisely, right!!!!! I remember not too long ago another non-conformist, radical company sent the Insurance Industry into a tail spin with its unorthodox methods of doing what's right for those in need. A.L. Williams overhauled the thinking of many. They were ridiculed, lied about, shone and taken to court, but the company survived and did wonders for individuals slammed by the lying competition. Now, here is PA. Interesting enough, is their radical way of doing things and the idea of taking on the publishing industry is a major undertaking. And like A.L. Williams, the critisism is unbelievable. I sent my manuscript, "Heaven's Final Approach," to many vanity publishers. The last turn down was the last straw for me. The email said,,,"we appreciate your efforts and wholeheartedly believe that your story WILL be published by someone, but we are looking for the next blockbuster." Well, so is everyone else...including PA. The problem with the publishing industry is that they have so much to choose from that picking the cream of the crop is the norm...But, who can blame them...Like Randal says, "It's a business." But this PA business has truly created a path for me that I would not have had otherwise. So,,,the big question..."Am I suppose to separate PA from the other Publishing Companies in my thinking? The answer is NO...They are a publishing company like the other's, except for one thing....THEY MAY HAVE GIVEN YOU AN OPPORTUNITY THAT THE OTHER'S DID NOT...

Author: FranW
Date:   12-08-03 20:02

Hi Randall. Okay, I'm truly curious, so I hope you will educate me.

1. "I also believe that the company wants to recover costs involved in publishing the book as soon as possible."
What are their costs? Seriously, I don't know. I can't imagine it's cost them anything before the first copy is printed, and that copy won't be printed until somebody's forked out the money for it. This is along the same lines as "I'm grateful they took a chance on me." How is it taking a chance when they don't invest any money in the book/author?

2. "I have personally spent several thousand dollars advertising my book locally and throughout the state..."
Okay. You wrote the book. You edited the book. You paid for dozens of copies for your own use. You spent thousands advertising the book. As a system, this is fair enough -- lots of people who believe in their own book, but who can't find a traditional publisher, self-publish and invest their own money into trying to make their book a success. Some succeed, some fail -- depends on how hard they try and how much of a market their is for their book. But then if you were willing to do all this, why did you sign all your rights away to a "publisher" who doesn't do much of anything? Do you feel (in retrospect) that PA is a better choice than self-publishing, where you pay for the books to be printed and sell them yourself, and where you keep all rights? (Self publishing -- where YOU are the publisher, and the printer's name is irrelevent -- can be quite cheap, as compared to the prices of some vanity publishers)

3. "My perception is, that the book publishing industry has been transformed in design to exclude certain authors and publishers, and Publish America is doing what it can to break the hold and the advantages that a few large publishing companies in the industry have gained through that transformation." Could you elaborate on this? What kind of authors is the book publishing industry trying to exclude? Do you mean they have a secret agenda to never let a person get published, or do you mean they reject most of the stuff submitted to them?

I can't argue the latter point: book publishers are businesses, and they exist to make money. They're not going to invest fifty grand or so in a new author whose work isn't as good or better, in their opinion, than what they're already publishing. They buy books they think will sell. They buy books for which there is reader demand. They try really hard not to buy books that flop, because they lose money that way. On a lot of books they buy, they barely break even. On a few books, they make a bunch of money, which helps cover the losses they take on less successful books. That's the way businesses work. But why would a publisher exclude a "type" of author for any reason other than that the author's book is unlikely to make them money?

Author: R. Eric Swanepoel
Date:   12-13-03 18:21

I recently had a novel accepted for publication by PA (actually their subsidiary, PublishBritannica) and I am delighted as I have had many rejections. I have read a great deal about publishing and what it seems to come down to, regardless of who publishes you, is the effort that you are prepared to put into promotion. I really believe in my book and I will put everything into promoting it. Call me naive if you want, but I am grateful to PA/PB for giving me a chance.

www.abctales.com/member/cellarscene

Author: Travis Medley
Date:   12-15-03 14:01

What is Success? The question I asked was, "Is there anyone that can write of a successful publishing contract that they have had with PA."

In my opinion success is the financial pat on the back you get for writing a good book.
It is actually seeing dollars on a royalty check.
It is getting a nice compliment about your work from a reader that actually paid for your book.

Success does not require financial security, it does require a level of excitement, a notion or a feeling which makes you desire to do it all over again.


Travis
writer who is considering a contract from PA for his novel.

Author: Patrick
Date:   12-18-03 11:19

About that 7-year stipulation - it's still there. I just got my PA contract.

After reading it, I thought I would do some checking and found this site. Got me wondering.

It’s my first time. I don’t want it to be negative experience. But then, rejection is a negative experience as well.

Is there a list of credible agents with specialties (Agents who won’t squash a book because of ideological differences. I added that qualifier because a “spiritual” or religious specialist may object to the content).

Anyway, y’all have a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, or Kwanzaa

Author: Patrick
Date:   12-18-03 13:25

Since my posting this morning, I've been reading through randomly selected commentary on PA, here. An interesting variety.

What I've noticed is that the vast right wing,,, I mean vast majority of negative comments recount secondhand experiences of what happened to a friend, or the friend of a friend. Or, there's the good old, "I heard that once, , , ,". Interesting reading, but not particularly credible feedback.

Another fact about the PA commentary on this site is that there are several PA clients who are very happy. And, that gives me pause as well, but not a lot.

I was pleased to see an alleged PA client who was genuinely unhappy. That's a good thing - some realism. Just ask Lincoln.

I am sure there are more firsthand accounts, both good and bad, out there. I don't have time to reaserch this ti death. And so, like the rest of life, I will have to "pays me money, and takes me chances." Ooops. I mean, "pays THEIR money, and takes me chances."

If I can get someone to put the thoughts of an unpublished author into print on their dime (Even if it is just the two complimentary books sent to the author) I see little on the down side.

So, they sit on the book or don't do a bag-up marketing job.

I'll just loan mine out, and if it's really good, it will sell.

The hrad part is I may need to come up with 100 names. For me that could be very difficult. I'm not sure I know a hundred people. But, that's a small price to pay for the opportunity to see something I think is worth saying in print. And teh odds are probably than winning PowerBall (Minnesota's big lottery).

I just had a great idea. Why don't all you naysayers form a pool for PA writers who need names and addresses? YOu buy interesting sounding titles and read them. Then you can become online critics of PA works being published, and help out guys like meat teh same time. Let's face it; a guy who doesn't know a hundred people needs an outfit like PA.

Thanks for reading this. I look forward to your feedback. If you enjoyed this, look for my upcoming PA book - Yet to be titled (Seems my original title is being used.) But, be careful - It’s about truth.

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, and Happy Kwanzaa.

Author: PA not for me
Date:   01-02-04 12:16

I am one who decided not to publish with PA.

I, too, was excited to be accepted by PA, but, as it seemed a bit too good to be true, I started researching. Reading the negative things people had to say about PA made my stomach crawl. Still, I did not reject PA at that point, but instead sent a long list of questions, all of which were quickly answered. Nevertheless, given the negative comments I had read, the idea of handing over the rights for seven years continued to make me uncomfortable.

Since then I learned first hand from a PA-published author about the dificulty of having one's PA-published book made available.

Hearing first hand, what I have read from various other PA authors, sealed it for me. I would rather go with a P.O.D. that will work with me, even if it costs me up front, to get my book in print, in order to make it available, than with PA and be constrained by unavailability of my book and a seven-year contract. In the meantime, I will continue to seek a publisher, and, should I end up going P.O.D., will put my P.O.D. book to use toward that end, with a good deal more control than PA would allow.

For those who choose to go with PA--more power to you. I think the stated ideal behind PA is great, but it appears that the reality falls far short of that ideal, and, given how short of the ideal the reality falls, there appears to be good reason, for at least some who have been published by PA and some of us who have not, to wonder about the sincerity of the ideal in the first place.

A blessed new year to all.

Author: Jim Clonts
Date:   01-03-04 13:18

PA published my military fiction novel, VIRULENT WINDS, earlier this year. I have been happy with PA. They have delivered everything they promised on, nothing more, nothing less. My book is available online at BN.com, Borders.com, Booksamillion.com and Amazon.com. It is also being carried by several Barnes and Noble Booksellers and B. Daltons, some of whom I never contacted. I have been given signings at Barnes and Noble Booksellers and Borders. I've had several newspapers do stories on my book, including the St Louis Post Dispatch. I have a signing scheduled in Green Bay, WI January 17th.

I am amazed that some on this thread have complained that they had to pay their own copyright fee and say that makes PA a vanity press. God forbid the author should have to pay $30 out of pocket for a copyright. That has been my only expense regarding the whole publication process.

By the way the list of family and friends can be no more than 100 people. They do not require 100 names and addresses. My list had 44 names and they offered the book for 30% off cover price along with a nice announcement of the book's release.

Yes, you have to promote your own book. However,PA makes it available through the big booksellers' (BN, Borders, Amazon, etc)normal distribution channels, something I can't do on my own.

I spoke with a store manager from a B. Dalton in Florida and he bought three copies right out of his own distribution system while we were on the phone. I thanked him for the purchase, but he said "No. Thank you. These books make me money."

Another commonly heard complaint is PA's lack of manuscript editing, typos, misspells, verb tense, etc. This is whining. I am a licensed pilot. When I fly an airplane I am the "pilot in command". I am responsible for the airplane and the safety of the passengers, etc. The buck stops with me. As authors I would hope that the buck stops with us also...or are we too damn special to ensure our work is correct. In my view the printed word is the responsibility of the author...period.

The quality of the print, the binding, the cover graphics, the distribution agreements, etc are the responsibility of the publisher. If your book sucks it won't sell and you'll develop a bad reputation. PA gives you the chance to sink or swim.

For those who are worried that PA is too good to be true: it's not too good, but it is true. They don't promise much, but they deliver what they promise and at no cost to you. The books themselves look great and are very well done.

I have several books I have either finished or am working on. Some will go to PA, others are not meant for that route. PA is not the answer to all your publishing woes, but it's a good place to start, especially with odd-genre books that may have a narrow audience.

If you want to write, actively promote and sell books, getting your work into the hands of the reader, then PA is the way to go.

If you think your book has the NY Times Bestseller potential and you don't want to tie up the publishing rights for 7 years then go find an agent and pay him 15% to find you a big name publisher. Good luck

Jim Clonts, author of VIRULENT WINDS
www.jimclonts.com

Author: david
Date:   01-04-04 23:42

As of several weeks ago, their contract is still the same: rights for 7 years, etc. I canceled my contract with PA for the reason that they will only communicate with you via email and not phone. I have a basic problem with that. I am starting my own publishing company: return policy, Ingram distibution, higher royalty rate for authors, real editing, etc, and none of the downside.

David
Ardilaun Press

Author: Janice
Date:   01-06-04 13:28

I have been trounced by PA-they are holding my book hostage. I received the lifetime of the copyright contract. I only wish I had read these posts before I signed it several years ago. I have copied some of the statements here and posted them on PA's author web boards. I am trying to piss them off so they drop my contract. All I get from them is nasty emails. I am retaining a lawyer and plan to sue them for the rights of my book. Please let this be a warning to anyone who is thinking of signing with them. DON"T!!! They take advantage of your naivte and your excitement. You can go the traditional route. I am looking for an agent now for my current work. PA's contract states they have rights to my next work. NO WAY!!! I refuse to let that one rot on the shelf as well. I requested an audit of their paperwork on marketing my book and they blatantly overlooked it in their reply email. I believe I have them. If everyone here retained legal counsel they would be out of business. Good luck to you all. We all deserve better than this.

Author: Janice
Date:   01-06-04 13:38

Retain an attorney if you can. PA stated to me in email that any attorney would say their contract is great. I say, bull... You are signing away all of your rights. Go through an agent. They charge nothing unless they sell your book. I wrote and received many nasty emails from PA, and I plan to show them all, plus the contract, to an attorney.

Author: J. Nielsen
Date:   01-13-04 12:40

Thomas:

I self-published my first novel with Xlibris. Except for the fact it was on Amazon, Barnes and Noble and featured in a local newspaper and one bookstore, I didn't get the marketing needed to make it a success.

My second novel was accepted by PA and will be released in Feb on this year. I am also a newspaper reporter for a local paper that will be doing an interview with me on my novel.

Most traditional publishers-about 95%-and I know; I have done my homework will accept unknown authors, therefore it still takes about 3-5 years for an unknown writer to get accpeted, unless you are J.K. Rowling. What I'm trying to say is, go with what you feel is right. I did the self-publishing route and also sent my manuscript to traditional publishers only to have them reject, reject, reject.

No matter who you are: YOU and only YOU can make your book sell. Even big-time authors have to "sell" their book. You see marketing on T.V., radio, magazines, etc...just because a traditional publisher accepts your book, does not mean they will "sell" your book.

PA may not be the best route, but for many writers, it is a much better route than getting rejected over and over again because you don't have sex or language or ponogrophy on your book-which I do not. I will tell you, I have read many, many books from Simon and Schuster, Random House and the like that sell pure trash! The only reason why they bought the rights, is because lets face it: Sex sells.

Just my opinion.

J. Nielsen

Author: PA not for me
Date:   01-14-04 11:35

Again, for those considering PA, the deciding factors for me were rights and availability. Besides reading about this matter on the net, I spoke in person to one who, despite incredible marketing and publicity, had a difficult time getting books into the hands of people who were interested. One can market all one wants, but if one cannot then get the publisher to make the book available to interested parties and is stuck with a seven-year contract, what is the point.

J. Neilsen, I appreciate your comments about "pure trash" from traditional publishers. I won't write such trash either. We must keep trying to find a way to make works other than trash available. Keep us posted on how you do with PA.

Author: new writer published by PA
Date:   01-18-04 15:02

PA offers a chance for the writer, especially one previously rejected by others, to get their work published. However, the writer should be wary of the costs. I was not aware of these costs prior to my book coming out because PA did not tell me and the advice I got from others, did not warn me to stay away. With all that I have spent promoting and buying my own books, I believe I could still sell the same amount by self publishing. Many authors I came into contact with after my book came out went the self publishing route and quite a few were very successful, selling thousands and having their works picked up by well known publishing houses. One such successful self publishing author said she spent a total of $7,000. PA is not a perfect solution. The author has to decide what they are willing to accept, do without and to spend.
PA does not always respond to inquiries and generally refers authors to contact them through emails only, some of which will not be answered.
POD was not even mentioned until after the book came out. Once I heard about it, I did not know that POD would mean that bookstores would not want to deal with PA. And trust me, I contacted big and small bookstores and all were adverse to ordering books on a POD and non-publicity (bookstores wanted some promo done by publisher, not just author) basis. Stores I contacted also did not like the non-returnable policy for those books bought that did not sell. If some PA authors found bookstores willing to order a number of their books, then great for them. But it was not that way for many.
PA fought on sending out books for review, but expected the author to supply all books for reviewers. Why couldn't they send out 3 or more books for review when the contract mentioned that books would be going out for review?
It took PA months to list my book with those wholesale distributors used by bookstores and also with websites (amazon and bn) that it stated they would list with, after my book came out. One author said he had to follow up by calling some distributors/sites and contacting PA a few times to get his book listed and one site never got word of the book.
I have spent a few thousand dollars promoting my book and buying books. I've heard of authors with big houses getting only 8 weeks or so of promotion and some established authors end up spending their own money to promote themselves.
So is PA a good option? Depends. Think of how many agents and publishers you've approached and been rejected by? Think on why you want to be published and what you hope to accomplish? Think on all the positives and the negatives.

Author: david
Date:   01-21-04 18:24

I agree with you about authors understanding what they want in having their book published. It seems to me that a lot of PA authors are in love with the idea that they have a book physically printed, but really don't care about the business side of being an author; content with seeing their name on the cover. I would be interested to hear how many PA authors have sold 5000 or more of their books. As a long time book author through tradition publishers, I got over that asspect of writing/publishing a long time ago and I'm now simply interested in making money. I don't think PA is a model for author cash flow as much as it caters to the egos of new authors (not to say that that is a bad thing, but like you say--know what you're getting up front).

Author: Nevermind
Date:   01-31-04 21:42

Question or 2 for Fran, who seems to have the big picture: I have the same problem as Janice, re the posts of a few weeks ago. I signed a contract 4 years ago, looks like I too have a lifetime clause on the copyright, rather than the 7 year thing most of the recent postees are talking about. Also, that bit about PA having dibs on the next work is a real issue. I hope, however, that I\'ve solved the latter problem. I have on file a written refusal of my next work on account of the great numbers of illustrations [wasn\'t that a shame], but that still leaves the problem of the copyright. I\'m wondering if there are other alternatives besides attorneys on recovering it. And, would a court find it hard to enforce that lifetime stipulation on the earlier contracts when PA has subsequently been offering 7 year deals. I would be interested in your comments on these two issues. Thx much.

Author: FranW
Date:   02-03-04 17:12

M. Nevermind:

I'm not a contract lawyer (or any other kind of lawyer), unfortunately, so I can't really give you much help.

Having on file a rejection from PA for book number two should certainly free you up to submit book number two to other publishers.

Book number one -- I'm guessing if you wanted to retain a lawyer and pour a lot of money into it, you might get it back from PA. Dunno.

The question, of course, is: Is it worth it? Only you can answer that question.

Here's a few places you could try to get more specific information:

http://www.speculations.com/rumormill/index.php?s=3&show_all_topics=1#section1
The Rumour Mill, under Caveat Scribener, in the "Ask Jarndyce" topic. John Savage is a contract lawyer who will discuss this kind of stuff in generic terms.


http://pub43.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11
The Absolute Write Water Cooler, in the "Bewares Board" section. There's a huge number of PA-based threads, and somewhere in there was a tongue-in-cheek discussion of how to get your book back from PA. Basically, it was suggested that if you change the title, change the characters' names, and change the opening paragraph, you could probably sell it as a "new" book and PA would never twig.

My advice (which, coming from somebody who is not a professional writer, lawyer, or anything else impressive, and therefore is probably worth exactly what you're paying for it) is:

Forget about PA. Write them off as a "lesson learned".

Submit your second (and third, and fourth, and fifth) books to trad publishers and agents.

As for that first, PA-owned book, ask yourself honestly: Is it good enough to publish?

If the book has sold a lot of copies (thousands) to total strangers, has got great reviews, etc., that would suggest it's maybe worth pursuing. If the book was rejected by traditional publishers or reputable agents prior to being sent to PA, then it's unlikely those publishers and agents will have a different reaction the second time around if you were to get the book rights back and to try selling it to a standard publisher.

I'd guess your best bet would be to join a critique group (on line or face to face), if possible one that specialises in your 'genre'. Workshop that first book and get feedback. Use that feedback to revise the book. Chances are, by the time you're done, you'll have something so amazingly different to the original that you can, with a "clear conscience", sell it to Random House (or whoever) without feeling you've breached your contract with PA.

Good luck!

Author: Nevermind
Date:   02-04-04 10:01

To Fran: Thank you very much for your thoughtful response and additional information. Your thinking very largely corresponds with my own [now that I am older and wiser!], and I shall proceed accordingly!

Author: Larry Mccrea
Date:   02-04-04 10:40

I'm thankful that my publisher bent over backwards to produce my book, now approaching 1,000 in sales. Their editing department covered every base with respect to quality and careful consideration was given to my wishes.
Since the books release in December, 2003, three major production companies have optioned to review the screenplay script, which I wrote. It does not matter who publishes your book as long as the finished product is up to your quality standards. Tons of writer's never get the opportunity to see their stories in print because of the vanity of most big name publishing companies, not because your writing is trash. Do you think for a minute that even the top 10 author's manuscripts are ready for print when they submit them? Of course not. They have to be edited and even borderline stories can be made into a published works of art if someone takes an interest. For Vanity Publisher's, it's an odds game much like any other business. "Take the best of the best and discard the rest." Well, masterpieces have been discarded. As for contracts...has anyone checked how much Vanity Publishers pay in royalties? Do your homework before slam-bashing anyone and remember: "Your original goal was to get published and the rewards from becoming a first time author can send your career as a writer into orbit." If you don't believe this: ask me, I'll tell you, and by the way..........I have the proof to back it up!

BY THE WAY: MY PUBLISHER WAS "PUBLISHER AMERICA" AND I'M PROUD TO BE ONE OF THEIR AUTHOR'S.

Author: FranW
Date:   02-04-04 15:46

Larry

I'm glad your book is doing so well. That's quite amazing, nearly a thousand books sold in two months. Just out of curiosity, were these "strangers buying through Amazon.com" type of sales, or have you got a personal selling strategy that you've devised for yourself?

Anyways, clearly PA worked for you, which is terrific. But since they didn't work for Nevermind, s/he needs to find other options. The problem is that PA holds the printing rights for N's book in perpetuity, but N's book isn't selling as it stands, which really locks N up.

What would you suggest? If N's book isn't of the same high quality of yours....then PA shouldn't have published it in the first place. Or if N's book is fine, but N isn't doing things right to sell the book, do you have any brilliant sales strategiesyou be willing to share with N? Or if N is just having sheer bad luck, and the problem is neither book quality nore sales strategies, but just wrong-place-at-wrong-time, do you have any advice on how N could convince PA to release the book from contract?

Finally, I'd be grateful if you could elaborate on your statement, "Tons of writer's never get the opportunity to see their stories in print because of the vanity of most big name publishing companies, not because your writing is trash." What do you mean, exactly, by the "vanity" of big publishers? AFAIK, their only criterion for accepting/rejecting a book is "will this book make money for us?"

cheers,

F

Author: Larry Mccrea
Date:   02-04-04 20:45

I believe that marketing is the key that unlocks the door to success. If another publisher had published N's book and it didn't sell, could it be said that they should never have published it, and how many books are published by vanity publishers that never sell. Is it the publishers responsibility to guarantee succes. No, it's their resp to honor their contract with dual focus on marketing, but in the end, it's the author's efforts that will produce the desired accomplishment. You are right. They are in business to make money and so is PublishAmerica. Why would any publisher agree to publish works if the odds of losing are great? Some people say that PA publishes anyone's manuscript with the hopes of recouping their investment from sales to author's relatives, friends etc: I think all publishers are interested in selling to whomever they can with the same motivation. And...PA's contract is a contract. Any publisher's contract is a contract and author's have the right to negociate, seek legal council and complain before the contract is signed. Any publisher is going to enforce a signed contract.

Big name publisher's read hundreds of manuscripts each year, as do the smaller ones. Example: I was told in a turn-down letter that my story was unique, compelling, with potential. I read further..."but, we are looking for the next block-buster" Interesting...So discard the good stories until you find the next top ten best seller. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with their strategy. It's been said that one persons trash is another man's treasure. Vanity publishing houses have incredible expenses and cannot afford to take a chance on anything that does not meet their criteria. On the other hand, if it does not meet their criteria, it does not mean that the discarded works is not quality. It simply means that it doesn't meet the standards they set. Smaller publishing houses can produce the quality others discard because of lower overhead...and guess what...it can also go on to be a top 10 best seller. On PA's site there are numerous Hollywood stars interested in PA's authors. Are the ads wrong or misleading. No...they are real. Other publishing houses get some of the same attention. Maybe you never see it on their site, but many movies are made from the books others sell. Here's another interesting point. While it seems that a few people are lam-bashing PA because of their tactics, remember they(PA) love it, all the way to the bank...and so are many of their authors. All of this attention to PA has created diverse reactions and I believe that being controversial is a strategy that many mega businesses in this country adopted many years ago.
As for marketing, set up a website...list your book. Get listed with as many search engines as possible and don't stop until your book is plastered all over the net. You were excited about your story when you wrote it. Continue to be excited and don't let anyone tell you that you can't move light years into the future. Be proud of your accomplishment. Many great stories never make it to book form. (PA has given you a foundation to launch your writing career, others did not.) You know that you have what it takes but maybe marketing is getting in the way. Remove the obstacle and go for it. Make simple photos of your cover and hand them out; place them in stores...everywhere and anywhere people congregate. Get targeted name list and send emails with a nice introductory of yourself and book. Break through barriers and collapse time frames to get your message out and remember: Like the Publishing Companies, you are playing an odds game. The more exposure you get, the more books you will sell.

Author: george
Date:   02-19-04 01:31

I'm in the processsss of arbitrating out of my contract with them. They are your worst nightmare.

Author: george
Date:   02-19-04 01:33

stay away. They are garbage.

Author: R-Shelby Sunderland
Date:   02-19-04 01:51

I've read every comment on this site to date, and I've made up my mind. I've written four novels and I am the proud recipient of hundreds of rejections from agents and publishers who specialize in my kind of fiction--broadly, "thrillers"--for the first three of them. Each of those three had been read by a group I formed years ago, honest folks I'm sure, because their comments have been inciteful and not always kind. I've used their suggestions, written up to six rewrites, and only then, following all the rules gleaned two years ago from Writer's Market, submitted these to the industry. Nada. I haven't even bothered to go once again through that postal routine for my fourth novel, only to see hundreds more form letters from the crowd that can no longer afford to take a chance on me, or me on them.

And then, just hours ago, PA acccepted the manuscript of novel three. The comments from all of you have helped me form a perspective about this rather unique event in my two years of wrting and rejection. But, notwithstanding the red flags, I am thrilled. Such a deal. A decision must be made. Screw the rights, I'm thinking, sign it tomorrow.

I think I will.

Author: Larry Mccrea
Date:   02-19-04 04:21

Great decision Shelby. Go for it. If you treat them with respect, they will reward you with respect, and a book you can be proud of.

Author: Sheryl Nantus
Date:   02-20-04 09:08

just be prepared for a lot of problems - first, make sure you have a lot of money on the side to spend on promoting the book, since you'll get nothing from PA. As well, you'll end up purchasing a lot of your own books for resales since the majority of bookstores don't take POD's due to the no-return policy.

here's a quick check - this weekend, walk into your local bookstores and see how many PA books are on the shelves. Ask if you can order them in and what they would do if your book had this publisher.

you may want to reconsider your investment with the answers. If you're happy having two or three copies on your shelf, go for it - but if you plan to sell books to total strangers, you may want to do a bit more research in your area about how you can do such a thing with the no-return policy in effect and the overpricing that comes with all POD's from the start. Most books will cost two/three dollars more than the usual paperback from the major publishers, so take that also into account.

and if you finally decide to go POD - go to Xlibris or IUniverse - at least there they take your money up front instead of the back door as PA does with author sales and so forth - you may not "pay" at the beginning, but look over the message board and see how many books you'll have to buy and then try to resell and/or give away for reviews...

Author: sthorng
Date:   02-24-04 13:33

It is evident from the many posts that two obivious conclusions stand out. First: From those of you that are not satisfied with PublishAmerica, you neglected to do your preparation; therefore, I personally would not read your book regardless of the Publisher. Second: From thos of you that are satisfied with Pa; I would read your book regardless of the Publisher because it is evident you did the preparation!

Author: renee'
Date:   03-01-04 15:39

Before you critize someone on their opinion try spelling your words correctly!!!

Author: BIrgens
Date:   03-03-04 10:57

This is not my experience with PA. Please check with them since what you were told doesn't sound like that publisher's policy. They seem reputable and honest in my experience.

Author: jillian
Date:   03-08-04 03:38

I have been a published author with PA for a few years now and have been extremely happy with their company and the success they have brought me. Obviously from reading the messages here, everyone has their own opinion. Hopefully the new people reading here and trying to decide whether or not they should go with PA are smart enough to realize that many have had great experiences. And for those who have had negative experiences- no one knows why or whose fault it is, it could very well be the fault of that particular author looking for someone to blame. If the company were that bad, how could so many others be completely satisfied? If you're considering them as a publisher, take a chance. I have a wonderfully skilled editor and everyone there has been more than helpful and down to earth.

Author: Cory
Date:   03-08-04 14:59

so what's the reason for the different opinions on PA? have those who have had good experiences with them merely been more diligent in promoting their book? i don't have a problem with editing my own work, but it's the priniciple of the thing; I want to know i have support from my publisher. For those who have had positive experiences:

i) do you feel your book was 'diligently' promoted? (examples)
ii) how much money have you made from royalties from PA?
iii) how much out of pocket expenses were associated?
iv)what is the title of your book and your name? (e.g. 'Larry' who sold 1,000 copies didn't give a name for his book, he could merely be a PA mole).

I understand that PA is a glorified POD and am still thinking of going with them anyway. But please, for those who have good things to say about PA, could you give CONCRETE examples of how they have made your book a success?

Author: Larry Mccrea
Date:   03-08-04 18:41

Cory,

First, I can assure you that I'm not a mole. The name of my book is "Heaven's Final Approach." The primary reason for my small success is marketing. Remember This: No matter who publishes your book or how they pump you with their marketing expertise and promised efforts, YOU will be ultimately responsible for the books success or failure. YOU have to spend almost as much time marketing as you did writing the manuscript. I know...sounds a little unfair, but once the publisher publishes, gets you listed with online or traditional books stores, the rest is up to you. If you make money, it's because of your personal effort. And yes, you would think that the publisher would be as anxious to spend their time and money marketing your book as you are. That is one of the reasons vanity publishers are extremely selective. They don't want to invest their money in manuscripts that don't make the cut. They're not interested in mediocrity, only the best of the best. PA also seeks quality manuscripts, except they have developed a publishing strategy that gives more authors a CHANCE, when no one else would. Think about it. If you owned PA and found a way to publish a massive number of books knowing that many may sell only a few, but were still able to make a profit, would you do it?
What does this do for you? It gets you published and publishing your first book can open doors that were previously slammed shut.
As for the potential of getting your first book published, I have written the screenplay for my book and it has been optioned for review by a major production company. If you would like to see the request, write to me and I'll send it to you.
shadowgold@tds.net

Larry

Author: FranW
Date:   03-09-04 21:17

Larry

You didn't answer Cory's specific questions. How much money did you personally invest in HFA? How many copies have you sold? How much money have you received in royalties from your publisher for HFA?

I note that on Amazon your book is ranked at 2,111,732, which pretty much equates to zero sales. Amazon also says your book only came out a month ago, which makes your claim of already having been "successful" seem a little contradictory.

You mention above, and also in an earlier post, that "vanity publishers are extremely selective. They don't want to invest their money in manuscripts that don't make the cut." The first time I thought it was a typo, but now it looks like you actually mean this statement.

Vanity publishers are not selective in regards to manuscript quality. They will publish literally anything as long as the author is willing to pay the price. Traditional publishers are the opposite -- they do not expect the author to pay for anything, but because of this they are very selective of manuscript quality, since the publishing house is investing a lot of money in the book.

The real scenarios go something like this:

Traditional publishing: Publisher invests $30,000 in the book including marketing; author invests zero. Publisher markets the book to the public. Printing costs $2.50 per copy. Book sells for $7. Publisher makes $4 profit per book; author makes $0.50 profit per book. Book sells 10,000 copies. Publisher recoups all costs and makes a $10,000 profit. Author makes a $5000 profit.

Self publishing: Printer invests zero in the book; author invests $500 for 75 copies. Printer does no marketing. Author spends $200 marketing the book to the public. Printing costs $5 per copy. Book sells for $10. Author sells 70 copies out of his garage and keeps all the money. Printer makes a net profit of $125. Author has invested $700 and made $700 in sales, for a net profit of zero.

Vanity publishing: Publisher invests zero in the book; author invests $500. Publisher does no marketing. Author spends $200 marketing the book to the public. Printing costs $5 per copy. Book sells for $18. Publisher makes $10 profit per book; author makes $3 profit per book. Book sells 50 copies via Amazon.com. Publisher makes a net $1000 profit. Author has spent $700 and made $150 in sales, for a net loss of $550.

Publish America: Publisher invests $1 in the book; author invests zero. Publisher spends $50 on making the book cover and marketing the book to the author and the author's family. Author spends $200 marketing the book to the public. Printing costs $5 per copy. Book sells to the public for $25 ($3 profit per copy to author and $17 profit per copy to publisher), or to the author for $19 ($14 profit per copy to publisher). Author gets two free copies, which costs the publisher $10. Book sells 30 copies via Amazon to the author's family who have been targeted by PA marketing: Author makes $90, and publisher makes $510. In addition, author buys 60 copies from the publisher and sells 45 at $2 over cost per book: publisher makes $840, and author makes $90 profit plus recoups $855 of the $1140 he spent buying the books. The publisher has spent $61 and earned $1350, for a net of $1289. The author has spent $1340 and earned $1035, for a net loss of $305.

THAT's how Publish America can "afford" to "take a chance" and "invest" in so many new authors. It's a very safe gamble for them that they will get the author/author's spouse/author's relatives to buy at least 5 copies of the book, at which point the publisher will have made a profit.

Author: Larry Mccrea
Date:   03-10-04 02:55

Fran,

First, you need to get your facts and figures together. It's easy to find out when a book was published, mine-Dec. 23, 2003. If you went to my site you already know that my book is listed with multiple books stores around the world,(not just with Amazon) so your implication that my book has not made the cut(many sales) is, pretty ridculous. It's propaganda to use misguided figures to express an opinion that you seem to know so little about. Having said that, I will not dignify your other so-called facts and figures with an answer, except to say that it costs PA more than 1.00 to produce a book and mine does not sell for 25.00 and I did not spend 200.00 marketing.

Author: Rogue
Date:   03-10-04 20:58

The worst thing about being insane is that you are never become aware that you are. PA is not the monster that some of you have portrayed. They provide a service that is excellent for many writers. Let's all get a grip. Also, vote for Kerry in November!

Author: FranW
Date:   03-15-04 16:45

I'm not affiliated in any way with PA, so I can only go on what I've read PA authors saying on various message boards (mostly the PA boards, but a few other writing sites as well).

The main "plusses" of PA seem to be 1) authors don't =have= to pay a cent, if they don't want to, other than the $35(?) for "copyright"; 2) PA designs cover art; c) PA accepts novels that have been turned down by traditional publishers; 4) PA gives an advance, albeit only one dollar; 5) PA gives the author two free copies of the book.

The main minuses of PA seem to be 1) PA promises that the books will be in brick and morter bookstores, but many PA authors have complained that B&M bookstores will not stock their books (as PA has no return policy); 2) PA books are priced significantly higher than the same size/type of novels sold by traditional publishers (usually by a factor of three-fold or more), making PA books unable to compete in the marketplace; 3) PA censors its message boards and biffs any author who complains against PA's policies; 4) PA actively encourages the authors to spend money on advertising and on buying copies of their own books to sell on, which leaves the authors with a net loss; 5) PA refuses to send out gratis copies to serious reviewers; 6) orders from bookstores are not filled, causing authors to lose sales or to be unable to have copies available at book signings; 7) their "professional editing" services consists of nothing more than running a spellcheck through the document, and often making more mistakes than they fix. Their is no editing for actual story content.

PA =does= provide a service, and it is probably the perfect service for =some= authors. The main problem I and many others have with PA is that they misrepresent themselves. If they'd be up front about what they do, how they do it, and why they do it, I'm sure they'd still have tonnes of authors signing with them, and a lot less disgruntled authors at the end of the day. But by claiming to be a traditional publisher, implying that bookstores will automatically stock copies of the books, and promising professional editing services, they totally misrepresent who they are and what they do.

Author: Rogue
Date:   03-17-04 20:00

PA books are readily available at B&N.com, Borders.com, and Amazon.com ... the BIG THREE!
PA books are quite attractive and professionally published.
PA books do NOT cost the writer a penny to produce or to have made available on the above mentioned sites.
PA books can be ordered at your local Barnes & Noble and Borders book stores.
PA books are slightly more expensive than other publishers. However, they are NOT way over the average. Also, many books at the local book store that are produced by small publishers tend to be above the average.
PA is not the best of marketers. So? Do it yourself.
Now, what's the problem?

Author: Trip trap, trip trap
Date:   03-18-04 19:06

I've read this thread with great interest, and have been spurred to trying to find excerpts from PA published books. Given the quality of the writing I've seen, I'm not surprised they got rejected from traditional publishers. Frankly I'd be embarrassed to have a book published by a Vanity Press.

Author: Margaret
Date:   03-21-04 16:56

there is an sample chapter from my book, "Hidden Legacy" on my authorden site; you are welcome to read it. I am proud of it and glad that I signed with PublishAmerica.

I have had no problems with the company. They answered any questions I have had either by e-mail or I have talked to them numerous times on the phone. Pleasant, friendly folks.

I believe in my book and enjoy going around meeting people and promoting it. I am a happy PublishAmerica author.

Author: Albert Rogue
Date:   03-23-04 12:57

you arrogant little minds. how dare anybody judge wheather or not one publisher or one particular method of publishing is better than another. great writers throughout history have self published; many great writers have never been read (or will be). if you measure the quality of a work by who decided to publish it you are nothing more than a mountebank and have no place among writers. if you are able to get a $1000.00 advance from so-and-so publishers so be it. great. if you self publish, great. publishamerica seems like a fantastic opportunity. let's focus on the words ...

Author: Margaret
Date:   03-23-04 14:42

thank you, Albert.

Author: FranW
Date:   03-24-04 18:20

Oh, for Pete's sake.

1. The shift key is located on either side of your keyboard, y'all, generally below the "enter" and "cap lock" keys.

2. There is no One Publishing Style Fits All method. Writers write for different reasons; they desire to publish their work for different reasons; they have different expectations and different desires. The only thing they have in common is that they're all authors. Joe Doe's Personal Memoirs, self published through Cafe Press so as to provide Xmas presents for Joe's 60 grandchildren, is just as valid as John Grisham's latest million dollar bestseller being put out by Putnam, which is just as valid as an anthology of gay Australian vampire science fiction stories put out by Pride Press in a limited edition of 500 copies.

3. Publishing, from a publisher's point of view, is a =business=. They exist to =make money=. They choose authors that they believe will prove to be =profitable=. Publishers offer the author an "advance", which is an advance on royalties: the advance approximates what the publisher believes will end up being the author's profit on that particular book, based on expected sales numbers. For a first-time fantasy author signing with Baen, whose book may be expected to sell 8000 copies, that might be five thousand dollars. For John Grisham's new destined-to-be-a-blockbuster novel, it might be a million dollars. For a new author signing with a small specialty press that focusses on a particular subgenre or aspect of regional interest, the advance may only be a hundred dollars, as this niche publisher may only expect to print five hundred copies. The advance is an indication of the publisher's expectations; the rights the author contractually gives the publisher should likewise be a reflection of the advance and of the author's expectations.

Do what works for =you=. All I advocate is to seriously ask yourself what you want, what you expect, what you'll be satisfied with, and then find a pubisher who has a track record of providing what you've decided you want and need...whether that be a large advance, a first print run of >100, a guaranteed advertising budget, a hardback edition, a returns policy, or whatever.

Author: Larry Mccrea
Date:   03-24-04 19:25

Fran,

Now, you've made a believer out of me. Every word, thought makes sense. You're right. Do what works best for the author. Final Note: Always read your contract from any publisher before signing. Tons of grief can be avoided.

Thanks Fran for the lesson in humility. You have my vote.

Larry

Author: FranW
Date:   03-24-04 19:33

Larry-
Always read ANY contract before signing! That goes for buying a car, selling a short story, or accepting a new job. :-)

Author: Larry Mccrea
Date:   03-24-04 19:38

Fran,

Interesting...You must spend as much time here as I do. Duly noted: Always read a contract. The lady has spunk and intelligence.

larry

Author: Larry Mccrea
Date:   03-24-04 19:41

Fran,

Write to me: shadowgold@tds.net
Would love to get your thoughts on other issues.

larry

Author: Albert Rogue
Date:   03-24-04 19:50

During the administration of William Jefferson Clinton, the U.S. enjoyed more peace and economic well being than at any time in its history. He was the first Democratic president since Franklin D. Roosevelt to win a second term. He could point to the lowest unemployment rate in modern times, the lowest inflation in 30 years, the highest home ownership in the country's history, dropping crime rates in many places, and reduced welfare roles. He proposed the first balanced budget in decades and achieved a budget surplus. As part of a plan to celebrate the millennium in 2000, Clinton called for a great national initiative to end racial discrimination.

After the failure in his second year of a huge program of health care reform, Clinton shifted emphasis, declaring "the era of big government is over." He sought legislation to upgrade education, to protect jobs of parents who must care for sick children, to restrict handgun sales, and to strengthen environmental rules.

Author: Albert Rogue
Date:   03-24-04 19:54

dude, that's one hell of a long post!!! sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh!

Author: Larry Mccrea
Date:   03-24-04 20:07

Despite Clinton's sexual escapade he was, in my mind, the most productive president in recent times. American voters typically vote for a change when a president gets too cocky with his personal agenda and neglects the will of the people. If Bill Clinton could run for president today, I would vote for him. After all, the president has a duty to pursue legislation that will benefit all Americans. Today's president seems to cater to the affluent, rather than those who work hard, smart and struggle to keep their heads above water. I think change is in the air, but not sure Kerry has the fortitude to match the Clinton era.

larry

Author: PA not for me
Date:   03-26-04 10:13

Larry,

If you believe that about Clinton, you deserve PublishAmerica.

Author: Sheila Cooperman
Date:   03-26-04 22:41

David,
I have been reading this thread of commentary for hours.
My manuscript has just been accepted by PA. I was excited, but after reading so many comments all the air in my balloon has been slowly seeping out.
You mentioned you are starting a publishing company. Was this true, or just another slant about all the bad opinions of PA.
I have been trying to get my book published for almost two years. I did have an agent, but she did not have the right
contacts. This book has the true ability to be a best seller. I know this in my heart. No other book like this, has ever been written. If you are honestly starting your own publishing company, maybe you would be kind enough to read my manuscript. sincerely, Sheila, Licensed Psychotherapist. I will accept any advice anyone is willing to provide. DATraining@aol.com

Author: Albert Rogue
Date:   03-27-04 07:22

I find it interesting that all those that attack Bill Clinton never are able to put forth a reasonable/logical argument against him. His detractors seem to always fall into the miasma by making statements like "he's imoral" or "I can't believe you support him." What all those detractors fail to do is provide any factual discourse that can negate the effectiveness of his two terms (yes, he was a two term president!) Also, it is curious that Clinton was impeached for a private sexual affair, yet, other presidents are given a free ride even though their negatives may in fact be of great harm to the welfare of the nation and perhaps the world.
As far as PublishAmerica is concerned ... those that have an issue should really consider why they feel that way ... it is my estimate that it may be relted to elitist narrow minded thinking.

Author: Victor Farrell
Date:   03-27-04 17:01

Hi:

I have been searching the internet for anything and everything that can be found about PA. Yes, I have the sample contract. But having three books published with iUniverse I am no longer on an ego trip. Therefore, when looking at iUniverse prices today, and PA's free offer, it is difficult...really difficult!...to think of publishing with iUniverse again! However, because of this site, my fourth book is now in Limbo! And what the hell am I going to do with my fifth that I am already into?
Maybe someone can point the way to a POD publisher that is 100% respected, and inexpensive to publish with. One that might even throw in 5 or 10 free author copies on publication?
I, too, will dream on... while I am in this quandry you all have put me in!

Chuckles...Victor Farrell

newday@telus.net

Author: Larry Mccrea
Date:   03-28-04 14:07

To rasserver.net,

Interesting that the eyes seem to have blinders when it comes to truth.

Author: FranW
Date:   03-28-04 20:12

Victor -- Assuming your books are spec fic, why not try submitting to or querying:

Meisha Merlin
DAW
White Wolf
Tor
Bantam Spectra
Ace
Zebra
Edge
Del Ray
St. Martin's
Baen
Eos
Warner Aspect
Harbinger
Riptide
Timberwolf

Author: PA not for me
Date:   03-29-04 15:41

To Albert and Larry:

"Never able to put forth a reasonable/logical argument against him"? How about factural, try that and all reason and logic cry out against the Clinton presidency. Clinton's impeachment was not about a "private sexual affair" with a subordinate intern. It was about obstruction of justice, perjury and suborning perjury when he, the president of the United States with all the power of that position, tried to prevent another former subordinate, who was not as enamored of his sexual advances as was Miss Lewinsky, from receiving a fair trial by suborning perjury of Miss Lewinsky and Linda Tripp, who, aware of the despicable kind of people she was dealing with, taped these conversations for her own protection and was later villified for it. Clinton later admitted to his crimes when he copped a plea at the end of his presidency rather than face the legal system without the protection of the office of the presidency. Of course, it was some kind of challenge to cop that plea when he was as busy as he was pardoning terrorists and other criminals in his final hours. And I wonder what Billy Dale and other employees of the White House Travel Office think of Clinton's productivity when it cost them their careers and reputations just so that the Clintons could replace them with cronies. Then there were the 900-some FBI files that the Clintons kept illegally in the White House, and there was the illegal campaign money from Chinese communist sources, for which these sources were duly repaid. Yes, the Clintons were productive, and this is only the tip of the iceberg that will rank this administration at the very apex of the most scandalous administrations in the history of the U.S. And you know, the leading Democrats knew this; they knew the stench these people brought to the presidency and they accepted it. In order to keep power, they held their nose and embraced it, and look where they are today. The Republicans told Nixon, a boyscout compared to Clinton, he had to go. The Democrats told Clinton they were behind him all the way.

And I love the irony, Larry, of brandishing "truth" in defense of an admitted perjuror who was disbarred from his bar association; there are "blinders" here, all right.

The truth is there to find, if you have the honesty to face it. Remember, men, "the truth shall set you free."

Author: Larry
Date:   03-29-04 16:26

rasserver.net)

If you go back and read my response above, it referred to how PRODUCTIVE Clinton really was. I think you even agreed. I mentioned that I was aware of his sexual escapades, which includes all the frills that go along with them, and yes, all the things you say above are true, but the keyword in my response is again, PRODUCTIVE. Yes, there were many sides to Bill Clinton and each could have its own argument, but it's tough to deny his economic accomplishments.

larry

Author: PA not for me
Date:   03-31-04 01:03

Larry,

This thread is supposed to be about PublishAmerica, but Albert and you introduced politics into it and should not be allowed to go unchallenged.

The PRODUCTIVity I agreed to was Clinton's unprecedented productivity in crime and scandal, which I thought was pretty clear. And you Clinton apologists need to get off the hangup about the man's sexual problems (and whatever "frills" you think "go along with them") and address things like his admitted perjury, his destruction of decent peoples' lives and reputations for his own personal interests, his pardoning of terrorists who had maimed and killed Americans, his illegally holding top-secret FBI files in the White House (with all the implications that that had for intimidation and exploitation), his all but ignoring the terrorist threat ( but for bombing an aspirin factory and lobbing a missile here and there), his failure to get Osama bin Laden (when he was all but handed to him on a silver platter), his providing North Korea with the ability to make nuclear weapons (on the honor system, of course), and on and on and on . . . . You admit that "all the things [I] say above are true" and then stress "PRODUCTIVE" again. Well, what I said points to Clinton's brand of productivity, which consisted, in large part, of getting into and out of scandals, to the great detriment of the culture of the United States, which unquestionably distracted him from the job he should have been doing as president.

And before I would want to deny "his economic accomplishments," I would like to know what they are. Remember, it was Hillary who turned the outrageous profit in the cattle futures (not to mention her book deal, with the slippery skirting of Senate rules). Could you mean that he was the first sitting president to have a legal defense fund, or is it the millions he has made off his presidency. These are dubious, at best, and if you do not mean these, just what were the "economic accomplishments" of the great Bill Clinton.

You know, you Democrats need to stop trying to defend Bill Clinton. Despite the overworked paper shredders in the Clinton White House, history will remember the man for what he was. Put the Clinton presidency behind you as a learning experience, take an honest look in the mirror, and try to pull yourselves out of the muck and mire in which the Clintons left you. It will require an honesty of which the present Democrat party seems incapable. With the Clintons you lost both houses of Congress and the presidency. You are still trying to legislate from the courts, but time is running out on that abuse of the Constitution. You no longer own the press, and the lies on which the Democrat party has so long depended are now challenged, because people have access to the truth. The Democrat party can no longer rely on people's ignorance. It is true that you have that great slight-of-hand "Campaign Finance Reform," but Americans ought to be able to see that for what it is after an election or two. I know there are some decent people who belong to the Democrat party, and one wonders how much more you are willing to take before you reform or leave your decadent party.

Author: Albert Rogue
Date:   04-04-04 19:53

Wow! It's amazing how worked up some people get about Bill Clinton (one of only two presidents to serve two terms since WWII). Quite interesting how the way the current administration has lied and manipulated goes unmentioned, but Clinton's ding dong still get the dind-a-lings out in droves. Wow!

Author: PA not for me
Date:   04-07-04 14:52

Albert,

The substance of your reply speaks for itself.

You may be interested to know, nonetheless, that Clinton was one of three, not two, presidents to serve two terms since WWII. They were Eisenhower (Rep), Reagan (Rep), and Clinton (Dem). (Bush (Rep) will be the fourth.) Nixon (Rep) would have served two terms, as he was elected to two, but he resigned when his Republican party said they would not support him in his fight against impending impeachment, the potential articles of impeachment including lying to the American people -- see any double standard here. (He did pay a high price for exposing the saboteur Algier Hiss and the two Democrat administrations for whom he worked.) Had Clinton and the Democrat party had the integrity of Nixon and the Republican party, Clinton would not have served two terms. Regardless, though I can appreciate your being impressed with a lawbreaker as blatant as Mr. Clinton remaining in office for two terms, you might well remember that Clinton, at his best, only enjoyed a plurality, never a majority, of the popular vote. Besides giving credit to a starkly partisan Democrat party, you might consider the credit due Ross Perot in Mr. Clinton's ability to serve two terms.

Author: Albert Rogue
Date:   04-07-04 21:35

Do you have a name? I do see why you would want to remain anonymous, though. Three two term presidents since WWII ... Clinton being one of them. No, Dubya will not be the forth. If you belive that you are not paying attention to the reality that is unfolding around you ... but, that is typical of Republican voters. Again, clinton\'s record speaks for itself. His eight years marked the most prosperous peace time era in American history. That, my fe dear fellow, is not an opinion, but a simple fact. I will gladly list them for you, however, there are various categories, therefore, let me know where to begin. Now, you speak of Nixon with great admiration ... interesting. I\'ll let you in on a little secret that you may not be aware of. Nixon was probably more of a liberal than Clinton. For example, Nixon wanted to nationalize medice, he created the EPA, he drafted and implemented equal working rights for woman, he believed in a woman\'s right to choose, and expanded the welfare program begun by LBJ. I, for one, admire Nixon. In fact, I believe that he and Clinton have been the two most inteligent and well intentioned men to reside in the White House in the last fifty years. What I don\'t understand is why right wing nut jobs like yourself admire Nixon ... the only reason I can think of is that you folks have no clue regarding Nixon and his philosophy og government. Unfortunately, I will have no way of being able to discuss with you (a few years from now) Clinton\'s place in history. I\'m confident that he will be regarded as a brilliant man, with a kind heart, and full of passion. He will be seen as a great man who fell somewhat short of what his true potential could have been because of men with malice in their hearts. President Clinton is a true American hero. Many know this already ... many more will recognize this as time demonstrates just how luck we were to have him.

Author: PA not for me
Date:   04-09-04 13:50

Albert,

My response offers no admiration of Nixon, merely a recognition that he had more integrity than Clinton, which merely places him among the vast majority of Americans.

Besides listing statistics, you would need to show exactly what Clinton did to cause what you would claim he caused. Be on your guard: if you are not careful, you will end up showing how Clinton rode on the success of predecessors Reagan and Bush and a contemporary Republican Congress, and, after eight years of riding that recovery, left Bush II with a tanking economy and a Wall Street mired in scandal. (The only blip on the screen of the Reagan economic recovery (1982-2000) was that recession which naturally occurred after the first Gulf war, which Clinton exploited to help win the election in '92.) Regardless, no manipulation of statistics will be enough to salvage the legacy of Bill Clinton. As for Bush, we "right wing nut jobs" are content to wait until November.

You have exposed what "reasonable/logical argument" is to you. Again, it speaks for itself.

You are neither interested in reasonable debate nor the truth. There may be a place for your rant, but it is not a thread about PA.

Author: Albert Rogue
Date:   04-09-04 22:11

Reagan's deficits are good. Clinton's surplus was thanks to Bush. Bush's deficit is cause of Clinton. Hmmm, I think you're a blithering idiot.

Author: PA not for me
Date:   04-11-04 08:42

"Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, refrains from giving, in words, evidence of the fact."

Author: Albert Rogue
Date:   04-11-04 19:20

fact: Clinton enterred office with a record deficit.
fact: Clinton left office with a surplus.
fact: Bush now presides over a deficit.
fact: Clinton was in pursuit of bin Ladin.
fact: the Bush team ignored valuable information left by the Clinton team.
fact: Bush I was a one term president.
fact: Clinton was a two term president (three if he could run)
fact: Bush II will (like Poppy) soon be a one term president.

Author: Ralph Reaves
Date:   04-14-04 05:01

Hello Richard,
You made the comment that you'd rather your mss rot under your bed etc. Man if that's really how you feel, go for it. As for me, I'm a very happy PA author. I've got enough reject letters from "regular publishers" to wall paper my house. PA is the first publisher to give it a chance, and frankly, I'd rather see it in print than have it rot under my bed. I've had nothing but cooperation and help from them. I got an e-mail from my editor just today to discuss an issue with me, so yes, they do edit. It seems to me that the 'regulars" aren't beating down your door so what do you care if they don't have the best contract in town. I hope I make them a million dollars. They've been nothing but good to me.

Author: Heather Hobson
Date:   04-15-04 01:48

Well, I am in the dilemna that I think several other writers have been in. I have a contract offer for a manuscript with PA. This is the second writer's forum I have visited today. Both seem to be a mixture of horror stories and okay. I've noticed that the more current stuff seems to be books that worked out more toward the okay. This makes me wonder if PA is changing.

But, I don't want to be fleeced or tricked. I have queried with my space fantasy novel for several years and to over 70 publishes. In all that time, I have only managed to get about 3 publishers to actually request the book and read it, and those were years ago.

I have another book that was to be published with a small press called Neshui Publishing, but that hasn't happened. The book was supposed to be out in October of 2003. When I contact them, I just get a song and dance.

So, I suppose I would like to hear from any other writers who have had books published by PA in the last year and their experiences. I was turned onto them by a recommendation from a woman at a local writer's group. Thus, I am very surprised to read all this controversary.

Thank you.

Author: prince kaywood
Date:   04-24-04 22:05

I will have to agree with the person that is talking about publish america in a positive way. The reason that I agree is because I have a book with publish america, and when i first started reading the comments on this forum, I became disillusioned. After I thought about it a while, I realized that when I sent my book to some traditional publishers, some of them never even bother to send me a rejection, and some did, My book is about an aids and cancer cure that my wife saw in a vision. Now consider this: suppose the four herbs that my wife saw in the vision work? If this happens, publish america would be worshiped for having the insight and "vision" to publish this book. this the reason why I find it hard to critize a company that gave my wife and I a chance. My website is http://www.publishedauthors,net

Author: prince kaywood
Date:   04-24-04 22:34

sorry my website was not complete. http://www.publishedauthors.net/princekaywood

Author: FranW
Date:   04-27-04 00:12

Heather:

What works for one writer may not work for another. I've never known of a publishing house that at least one author didn't just loooooove, and another author didn't just haaaaaate.

Since you write space opera/space fantasy, I assume you read this genre as well (most writers write what they like to read). Therefore, your book would presumably be selling to readers who are much like yourself.

So, maybe try asking yourself (and your friends with similar reading tastes): Where do you get the space opera books you read? Why do you choose the particular books that you read? What attracts you to them? How do you find out about them? Who are these books published by?

And then ask: Would Publish America suit your needs? Have you purchased PA books that are in the same genre as yours?

If you expect to sell to readers who buy books direct from the author's hand, or who buy books by unknown authors from Amazon.com based on the jacket blurb, PA would probably suit your needs. If you expect to sell to readers who pick up things that catch their eye when they're browsing the F/SF section of their local Borders, PA would probably not work, as few (if any) physical bookstores will stock books from publishers who do not have a return policy.

Author: dresser
Date:   05-10-04 14:24

This is certainly a long read. I'm into third book publication with PA. Simply because I have a historical trilogy and once they took the first I was stuck giving the other two to them. Most of the negatives and the positives on the board seem accurate in my experience. The positive is that it gives you a book in hand at no cost if you so choose. Negative, almost everything else. The lack of selectivity from PA annoys me the most. That and the cost. (My first was sold at $39.95 for a paperback novel.) One thing not noted: PA is selling its own book on marketing. Making a profit. PA is also sponsoring author alumnae gatherings in places like Iceland, Maryland, and the Florida Keys. The cost of these experiences is extremely high. Hundreds of dollars for hotel rooms, exclusive of transportation. One might think that there was some profit motive in this. A few days ago I posted a simple message on the PA board that the Booksellers Convention was due first week of June and was PA to be represented? The message was censored. Therein lies the rub.
Mary D

Author: dianne
Date:   05-17-04 13:19

It was interesting reading your comments on PA. I had a book published by them. They did an excellent job on the cover. It was very impressive. I did as they said and talked to a lot of bookstores who were willing to do book signings, but needed a contract with PA. I have written and called and no one has responded to me at all. I was so hopeful. I wish I knew a million people, but let's face it, there are not a lot of people who just surf the web to find books that are not in bookstores. Did you ever get the response that you wanted?

Author: Heather
Date:   05-17-04 15:37

Thank you Dianne, Prince Kaywood, Dresser, and FranW. You all provided me with some helpful information about PublishAmerica. The decision was certainly not an easy one.

I did decide to sign the contract and go for it. I am hoping I will have no regrets. I believe in this book and now it will do well as soon it is out there,

As of today they sent me a long survey to fill out and send back. I figure it will take a few days to complete all they asked for.

Thank you all again for your help. I will add my adventures with PublishAmerican here so others can learn from them.

Author: Tandy Braid
Date:   05-18-04 13:07

For thoes of you who want an inexpensive way to have your books published without the large expense I have a secret.
Plummerprinting. Hope this assists all you struggling authors!

Author: Daniel Anderson
Date:   07-19-04 05:10

Man, I just received my official PublishAmerica contract in the mail, had it read and signed, and was ready to send it out this morning when I came across this thread. While it has not all been negative, I would say that a good two-thirds of the information listed here has been at least somewhat negative.

Now I really don't know what to do. My book can be best described as a Christian Fantasy - a rather niche genre that I have been having trouble finding a publisher for. Then came PublishAmerica, which offered to publish my work, and, of course, I thought I had finally hit the big time.

And so here I am with the signed contract in my hand, but at the last moment, I decide to investigate the company one more time. And I discover all this cynicism and negativity. . . how utterly depressing! Here I had thought PublishAmerica wanted my book because of the quality writing, and instead I find out that the company probably accepts nearly everything from everyone, whether the quality of the work is high or not. This, of course, gives me reason to doubt the writing quality of my own novel.

So, if anyone is still reading this thread, should I just say what the heck and go for it anyway? Does PA really accept everything, no matter the quality? Is it true they do not edit your work (other than grammar)? Do they really take claim to your future books if you're writing a series (I do not recall seeing this stipulation in the contract)?

Ah well, any final feedback would be appreciated in the next couple of days before I decide to send the contract out. With a book as potentially niche as mine, PA might still be the way to go, but I also think my book has the chance to do really well if given the proper support by the right publisher (if I ever find one), and PA doesn't sound like they'll do a lot for me in this regard.

Thanks for the help, everyone.

Author: Heather Hobson
Date:   07-19-04 17:35

Dear Daniel,

I recently have signed and mailed off a contract to PublishAmerica. If you look back on this topic, I dealt with similar questions to you. My biggest concern was the tie up for seven years. The good part I can answer for you, is that you don\'t have to submit to them any other books.

I finally decided that I believed in my book enough that I would self-publish it if I had the resources. I have also read a lot about publishers with traditional presses having to do a lot of their own PR work. I just think that comes with being a writer these days. You have to promote your own stuff no matter what publish you decide upon.

As far as I know, PublishAmerica is in the progress of editing my novel (which is also a fantasy). Once you sign the contract they will ask you to gather up to a 100 names of people who might be interested in the book and fill out this detailed questionaire. That kept me busy for about a week.

I found out about PublishAmerica through a writers\' group where a woman had very happily and successfully had two of her books published through them.

I hope these helps you decide.

Author: Daniel Anderson
Date:   07-20-04 07:07

Dear Heather,


Thanks for writing. I read some of your earlier posts and it sounds that your situation was not too different from mine. And like you, I probably will go with PA in the end, as I can't see saying 'no' to PA and thus once again return to the possible reality of never being published.

But I think what is most disappointing is that I thought PA was a more discerning publisher than what it seems to actually be. I mean, I knew getting published with the company would be a little easier than with a more conventional publisher, but I thought there would still be some level of quality control - in other words, your work would still have promise to be accepted. After reading these posts, it seems PA publishes everything, and that makes my "achievement" of being published feel rather hollow and meaningless.

That said, PA still has to make money, so surely it cannot accept every piece of junk they receive, right? And surely they can't mistreat their authors or sellers if they hope to make money, right? That's what I don't understand about some of these negative comments, they don't seem to be the practices an intelligent, profit-conscious company would employ.

In any case, thanks again for the feedback. I'm glad PA is proving to be a satisfactory experience for you. Good luck on your fantasy novel. Perhaps I'll find a copy of it at some point.

Anyone else have anything left to add concerning this subject?

Author: robbi atkins
Date:   08-15-04 12:30

I have been happy with them. I don't see how people can compare them to a POD company- they do NOT accept everything they read(that is a fact) and you do NOT pay them a dime (that is a fact). They appear to be an excellent way for first time authors to get their foot in the door. They did excellent cover art and editing. I had two chances with ample time to look over the editing they had done to my book. They have been polite, professional, and accessible at all times. The contract was easy to understand, as I saw it. And as far as the complaining about submitting an address list for press release? I think some people just like to complain. I was happy to do it- I want my friends and family to know about it when it comes out. Also, I have a friend who manages a Barnes and Noble and was shown a list of publishers throughout the country that were not considered reputable and that Barnes and Noble would not work with. PA was NOT on this list and I took that as a good sign. Last of all, we shouldn't forget that most big houses and agents will not accept, or even look at, the work of first time authors.

Author: Larry Stevens
Date:   10-24-04 09:48

I just received my author's copies of my historical fiction, "Zachary's Arrow." I was very pleased with the printing quality. They used my design for the cover and that looks very nice as well. The process of editing and relationship with Publish America was veryprofessinal. Over all, the book looks great.
I was a little concerned about the price ($19.95) for a fictional paperback, but all in all it met my expecations (In my mind, I think it is a good and read and worth the price). I have written, and had published, three previoius books and they also have prices that seem somewhat inflated. If authors are working with PublishAmerica to become the next $1,000,000 seller I doubt it will materialize. If writers are looking for an opportunity to see their thoughts in print, it is a great way. I recommend Publish America highly.

Author: Katherine Kuzma-Beck
Date:   11-20-04 21:13

I have a PA contract sitting on my table in the kitchen and after reading all of this, I'm not so sure to sign it. They rejected my first book, but seem more then interested in my latest one.

They have been emailing me for local papers and such to annouce me signing with them...do they usually do this?

I'm a really young writer and it's been my dream to do this before I'm 20, but I don't want to be screwed over.

Can any authors who have used PA drop me a line? My email is kkuzmabeck@hotmail.com.

Author: Darrel Day
Date:   11-26-04 01:44

I have sat here and read for a very long time the comments by soooo many of you "Authors." I noticed something about every "unhappy" writer that had nothing good to say about PA. For all of your so called great advice, none of you once said, "Hey, PA sucks buttttttttt, here is another publisher that did "me" right." Hmmmmm???? I have two novels with PA now and have happily submitted my third to them. I don't know if they are the best in the country. I don't even know if they are second or third. What I DO know is that they have treated me good and have done just what I asked them to do. Publish my books! As for the non editing of some of your books... hmmmmm again???? you must have submitted a perfect manuscript! Wowwwwww!!!! I only say this because they certainly edited my manuscripts anddddd they even took the time to send me excerpts from editing books stating why they edited or did not edit certain errors in my novels.
Anyone can have a bad experience with a publisher. It happens. But unless you are willing to offer a better way, then what validates your statements? For those of you sitting there with PA contracts on your desk, unsure of what to do with them, I say... Sign it. Isn't that why you sent your manuscript to them in the first place? To become a published author? I don't make a promise they will make you a million seller. I dont know what they will do for you. But I do know that because of their willingness to give my novels a chance, with thier knowledge to sell books and my confidence in my own writing, together we may make each other very happy. I say, thank you PA for taking the time to give my novels a chance.

Author: Lisa Maliga
Date:   11-29-04 16:58

For those of you thinking of signing a contract with PA, please ask yourself these 4 simple questions:

1. Do you want your book to be in bookstores nationwide?
2. Do you want libraries to order your book?
3. Do you want to earn enough money to have a CAREER as a writer?
4. Do you want your publisher to do the majority of marketing & promotion for your book?

If you answered YES to any of these questions then PA is not the publisher for you. PA's business plan is to sell books back to the authors. Bookstores DON'T stock PA titles as PA books are NOT RETURNABLE. And PA is considered to be a vanity press.

Remember, you are responsible for the outcome of what can happen to your book[s]. Research all claims VERY carefully. You have access to the internet, use it wisely. Research any and all publishers. You owe it to yourself.

Hope this helps!

Author: Timothy Stelly Sr
Date:   12-17-04 18:04

There's an old saying, "You get what you pay for." Since authors pay PublishAmerica ) in upfront costs, I think they should err on teh side of caution and not expect a lot of bang for their (invisible) buck.

As for supplying them with a list of 100 friends and associates, I didn't do that. The people I knew learned about the book from me and they told their friensds and whatnot. Two, I only relied on PA to get my book sto on-line sites and press releases to my local paper. (Fortunately I have had stories about me appear in other papers around the country--at least two others.)

My book, "Tempest In The Stone," is an urban tale geared toward the hip-hop genweration, so I understood my market and took unique approaches to reach them. Two, I sdee PA as a stepping stone. They will publish my second book as well. This will get my name out there and if I expect to boast of impressive sales, I realize the onus is on me. I bombarded both mainstream and blackk Newspapers, book clubs, Jucos, HBCUs, black bookstores, neighborhood associations, and considered book signings at several smaller bookstores--hell, even a USED bookstore (After all, "pub is pub").

Sure, the advance barely covers the cost of two stamps and a pack of gum; they don't get your books into the 50,000 or so "bricks and mortyar" stores as they imply, but essentially it's a fereebie, so some of the work is up to you.

If you buy a two-dollar watch, you can't rely on it's accuracy. PA may not be the "best" publisher, but with hard work it MIGHT get your writing career off to a good start. i won't knock it unless my book is a complete failure--and for me, I figure anything less than 10,000 sales is unsatisfractory.

Why that figure? I've sent out more than 1,000 missives (e-mail AND USPS letters) and follwed them up. I've had friends e-mail everyone in their address books. I used business reply envelopes to send flyers to businesses who bombard mw with their product pitches (hey, you never know).
I even printed flyers in Spanish and sent flyers to London, canada, The Virgin Islands, Alaska and Puerto Rico.

I even swung a deal with a "paper boy" in a small town to distribute 50 flyers on his route (albeit, he lived in a small town.) IO've directed potential buyers to bookseller internet sites, PA's website and my own PO Box and e-mail address. I told potential publishers of my plight--"I'm struggling," and asked for "just a blurb". 90% of the time I never even got a response, buty several people whom I e-mailed understood that I was a struggling artist.

So for me, time will tell. By January 2006, I know where I'm headed and hopefully PA will guive me the career bump I need. By the way, I have two other books under consideration at small presses that pay more than the funky buck PA pays, but I won't know the outcome of my submissions for several week.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Good luck!

Author: Lisa Maliga
Date:   12-18-04 16:04

Dear Mr. Stelly,

Since your book is about to be launched next month, you will probably be surprised to note that only ONE [1] copy of "Tempest In The Stone" is being stocked in a warehouse in Laverne, CA.

Meanwhile, HB Marcus [a/k/a Mr. PA] & His Books’ Statistics are being presented to you [and others] to show just how much PublishAmerica does for its authors, even ones as "visible" as Mr. Marcus.

Since HB Marcus has led numerous authors into the clutches of PA and has harangued those who dare present an opposing view, here’s a look at what his two books are doing over on Amazon.

"Crispy" ISBN # – 1591290546, [2001] Amazon Rank as of 12/17/04 = 1,299,887
On hand across all warehouses: 4
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week’s unadjusted demand: 0
Lat week’s unadjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 3
Total sales last year: 11

"The Joe Schmoe Show" ISBN # - 1413702872, [2003] Amazon Rank as of 12/17/04 = 1,589,083
On hand across all warehouses: 3
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week’s unadjusted demand: 0
Lat week’s unadjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 3
Total sales last year: 8

Now, here's a new book by a traditional publisher:
Oxford/NYPL Book - ISBN # - 0-19-516975-1 [2004] Amazon Rank as of 12/17/04= 3,886
On hand across all warehouses: 1,271
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week’s unadjusted demands: 23
Last week’s unadjusted demands: 34
Total sales this year: 693
Total sales last year: 0

Ingram’s Automated Stock Status System can be called at ANY TIME. All you need is a book’s ISBN number. The phone number is 615-213-6803

If you would like more information about what PublishAmerica is, feel free to check out these helpful links.

http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessage?topicID=209.topic

http://www.mindsightseries.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-auth.cgi?file=/3831/3831.html&lm=1094407767

http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/pebp.htm

http://www.ed-williams.com/news.html

http://www.lisamaliga.com/epublishing3.htm

Author: Bonnie Bell
Date:   12-20-04 18:12

I am asking myself this same question. I was just excepted but my manuscript was not edited. The last half still needed illustrations attached. So the question is, do I sign or do I not sign?

Author: Bonnie Bell
Date:   12-20-04 18:36

I was just excepted by Publish America. Then I came here. My book needs to be edited nor did I finish attaching some of my illustrations. What do you suggest I do?
Thank you, Bonnie

Author: Lisa Maliga
Date:   12-20-04 23:18

< Thank you, Bonnie>>
Dear Bonnie,
If your book needs to be edited and you haven't included all the illustrations, your book will probably be published in that form. Also, your book will only be seen by family & friends.
If you only click on one link, try this one:
http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessage?topicID=209.topic
Hope this helps!
best wishes,
Lisa
http://www.lisamaliga.com
Lisa's Library of Writing

Author: Donna Brown
Date:   01-11-05 17:41

Hi, Daniel,

Thanks to all who shared thoughts and experiences. Here\'s what I think, for what it\'s worth.

I am a teacher and counselor who has published articles and essays for twenty years, and more recently, some of my poems have appeared in literary journals. I\'m not a novice when it comes to writing, and I\'m accustomed to being treated with respect by editors. However, when I had my first book-length manuscript ready to publish, I found that book publishing is another world - elitist, sexist (forgive me, but I believe this), and deliberately impenetrable. The book was a finalist in a national contest, so I have reason to think it may have some merit. It is also the first of a series, and I am eager to get back to the sequel.

I met an agent at a writers\' conference who asked for an \"exclusive read,\" saying she would give me an answer \"very soon.\" She kept me dangling for eight months. Others sent back the manuscript saying they were not presently open to new clients (a fact not mentioned in their ads or on their web sites) or sent the manuscript back in pristine condition - obviously unread. All this is disrespectful, unprofessional, and unacceptable in any other industry.

I am very grateful to be publishing my book with PublishAmerica, where it will rise or fall on its own merit. If it does well (perhaps sells the \"magic number\" of 2100 copies), perhaps a major publisher will pick up the sequel. Or perhaps I won\'t have time for THEM.

Thanks,

Donna

Author: Lisa Maliga
Date:   01-12-05 22:43

Dear Donna,
If you’re hoping to sell 2100 copies then you will need to have lots of friends/relatives/coworkers who in turn will recommend your book to many other buyers. As noted above in several of the posts, PA doesn’t get books into bookstores. PA doesn’t get books into libraries. PA does absolutely nothing to promote their books other than slapping ‘em on their web site and a few online bookstores.

PA is a fast road to literary obscurity.

Read this thread.

http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessage?topicID=209.topic

And check this out:
http://www.lisamaliga.com/epublishing3.htm

Author: Donna Brown
Date:   01-13-05 07:21

Dear Lisa,

Wow. Your web site is phenomenal. Thanks so much for writing.

The next two years or so will tell whether I made the right decision in publishing with PA. I first heard about PA from a friend in my writing group who, like you, is a whiz at finding things on the Internet. She traced the progress of books that won first place in the Pacific Northwest Writer's Association's (PNWA) annual contest and found that several had been published by PA. Apparently I am not the only author disenchanted with the 99% rejection rate by "traditional publishers" - especially when the vast majority of rejections are made by interns in agencies or publishing houses who may never have glanced at page 1.

I taught creative writing for many years in a community college, and I worked with many adults who had little writing experience but much to say about their lives. PublishAmerica allows people like that to see their work in print, and I value that. It's very democratic. And I have read books published by mainstream publishers - many of them - that could have done with a good deal more editing.

I have a couple of reasons to be optimistic. As a former technical editor and author of many articles and essays, I have some confidence in my editing skills. Also, before I wrote the book that is soon to be published, I wrote another one that was a finalist in the PNWA contest. At the PNWA conference, I met a wonderful agent with a generous spirit, Liza Dawson, who took the manuscript with her on the airplane home, read it, and gave me specific suggestions for making the book more marketable. She offered to look at a revised version, but by then my vision had changed and I started a new mystery series with a new character. In the new series, I included her many suggestions, so I feel I have had the benefit of some expert advise.

In that my book is the first of a series, I see it as a flagship of sorts. By the time the second book is complete, I will have a network established - the bookstore contacts, web page, business cards, etc. - as well as a small contingent of readers who have read the first book and want to know more about my characters. Also, I have two nonfiction projects that have been languishing in boxes for years - education-related books; I see PA as a good way to publish books like that for a specialized audience. If PA publishes them, I can sell them.

Well, time will tell. I am very grateful to you for sharing you experience and the results of your research. Knowledge is power.

Thanks again and best wishes,

Donna

Author: Lisa Maliga
Date:   01-13-05 20:53

Dear Donna,
<<Wow. Your web site is phenomenal. Thanks so much for writing.>>
Thank you for your compliments.

<<The next two years or so will tell whether I made the right decision in publishing with PA. I first heard about PA from a friend in my writing group who, like you, is a whiz at finding things on the Internet. She traced the progress of books that won first place in the Pacific Northwest Writer's Association's (PNWA) annual contest and found that several had been published by PA. Apparently I am not the only author disenchanted with the 99% rejection rate by "traditional publishers" - especially when the vast majority of rejections are made by interns in agencies or publishing houses who may never have glanced at page 1.>>
The 99% rejection rate exists for a reason. To weed out the wannabes and those who show mediocre or no potential. It’s not a perfect system, but it does prevent the market from being flooded with total garbage.
PublishAmerica, on the other hand, accepts approximately 80% of the stuff that comes through the e-mail system. Some of these manuscripts show a lot of promise; others are in the first draft format and will remain so due to the lack of editing that Publish America performs.
Being the winner of a contest puts you in a category that should allow you to be published with a real publisher. Perhaps you should investigate a university press or regional publisher. I’m sure you’d be happier with a $1500 advance than a $1 bill taped to a contract that binds you for 7 years like an indentured servant.

<>
That’s an excellent qualification to put in your query letters to respectable publishing houses. I have also read books by large publishing companies that could have been edited more, but most have been edited quite well. PublishAmerica does NOT edit their books other than a quick spelling/grammar check.

<>
All new PublishAmerica authors are optimistic at the start of their courtship. While the mystery genre is quite popular, making it online, which is basically what you’ll be doing, will prove quite difficult. Even if you have your own web site, not something that PA cobbles together and won’t edit [typical!] you will have to be a web master. You will have to know SEO [Search Engine Optimization], be a marketing genius, have an extensive web site offering much in the way of entertaining readers/potential customers, and also be able to keep ‘em coming back. You are in competition with established mystery writers who have professionally designed sites as well as books available in bookstores and libraries.

<>
You must have a huge network of friends/family/coworkers in order to sell your title[s]. Even so, they might not be thrilled to be hit up for $19.95 for a 200-page book [average price] and less so when it comes time to purchase book #2. As for bookstore contacts, perhaps a bookstore or two here and there will carry your title. Maybe 1-2 copies. Do the math, you won’t sell many through bookstores as the managers and those in the higher levels all know what PublishAmerica is – vanity POD with a NO RETURN POLICY. It makes no business sense for them to carry Publish America titles. Business cards might sell a few copies here and there. And if you’re thinking of designing a web page, well, that’s a sure way to obscurity as you need PAGES. Lots and lots of them. Google currently has 8,058,044,651 pages. How will yours stand out?
Please get your education-related books looked at, edited, and sent to a legitimate publisher who will take longer to get your book on the market, because they actually read the entire manuscript, not just 30 pages, and they do something called editing...

<<Well, time will tell. I am very grateful to you for sharing you experience and the results of your research. Knowledge is power.>>
I continue to help people become aware of what PublishAmerica is so that they don’t have to know what it’s like to have a book that won’t be reviewed by a newspaper, and don’t have to have bookstores and libraries ignore them. While a writer is able to help publicize a book, it’s a real publisher’s job to actually promote it and arrange for booksignings, reviews, and bookstore/library placement.
By the way, what is the title of your book that won the PNWA competition?

Thanks again and best wishes,
Lisa Maliga
http://www.lisamaliga.com
Lisa's Library of Writing

Author: Donna Brown
Date:   01-14-05 07:17

Hi, Lisa,

An Adjustment in Consciousness (pen name: Claire Bellarmine) was a finalist in the Pacific Northwest Writer Association annual literary contest for "genre novel." Another book I submitted some years earlier was also a finalist. I abandonned that one after finding that I didn't want to live with that particular heroine for the decade or so that it would take to write the mystery series I had in mind.

My current heroine, Janet Tucson, is a professor of English at a college on the Olympic Peninsula - one of the roads not taken for me. I really enjoy the world I created for her, and as an added bonus, I now have any number of excuses to visit the Puget Sound region - for "research," of course.

Thanks for asking,

Donna

Author: Lucia Bibolini
Date:   08-24-05 15:46

I had my book published by PublishAmerica, and have regretted it bitterly.

If anybody is unsure whether to sign a contract with PublishAmerica, consider this:

1) Do you want to make writing your profession?

In that case, throw the contract away as quickly as you can! Do a google search, read all the information in www.freewebs.com/truthaboutpa/faqs.htm, ask you country's Society of Authors for advice.

2) Do you want to publish a book for yourself, your friends and family, or for a select audience?

In that case, try an honest POD publisher, such a Lulu (no charge for printing, an optionl $35 to go on Amazon, low retail price, and I've heard excellent reports about it) or iUniverse ($290 upward to print your book; I ended up spending much more with PublishAmerica than if I'd gone with iUniverse, and would have had a far, far better service).

There are lists of POD publishers, but please cross-check through a writers' forum or by contacting your country's Society of Authors - I just can't believe how much corruption there is in the publishing industry. I wish governments would consider fixing up the laws on publication, so as to clean up this rather filthy market.


Anyway, here is my PublishAmerica story, for your amusement.


I submitted Wizardess Born to a couple of publishers and one agent, and received my first rejection letters. Then, one author in my writers’ group recommended that I try PublishBritannica which, according to the company website, is based in Milton Keynes, UK. He said he'd heard good reports about it from a friend. He died a few months later – at least he never found out what terrible advice he'd given me!

My contract has PublishBritannica's address at the top. So I calculated how long it would take me to drive there - oh yes, it makes me laugh now, I actually expected to meet my editor in person in Milton Keynes. (The truth is, PublishBritannica doesn't have any office in the UK).

Being a total novice in the publishing field, I trusted the PublishBritannica website. Normally, people aren't allowed to mislead the public with false advertising. I had no idea that this law only applies if you're advertising a product for consumers! And authors unfortunately are not considered consumers.

On its website, PublishBritannica claimed to be a traditional publisher, that its books were available in the major bookstores, that it was 'picky' in accepting works for publication, that it was not a vanity press, and that it would do some promotion, although it expected authors to do most of the marketing work.

I think the first thing that made me suspicious was the list of friends and relatives. But I had invested too much in my book – I wasn't ready to believe I'd been scammed. The next moment of doubt was the editing. But by then I was in the PA forum, taking part in the communal excitement about being published, and ready to praise PublishAmerica for anything it did.

Then, when I received my two free author copies, I was so excited I ran all the way from the post office to my local bookshop. They didn't even look inside. I thought they would at least read the first sentence or something. They just took a look at the cover and said: "We don't stock this kind of book". I didn't understand what they meant, since I didn't know much about POD books. I had no idea that bookshop owners can recognise a POD book printed by Lightning Source by its cover. And many vanity publishers use Lighting Source...

Anyway, I did not let that experience deter me. I studied how to write a press release, and sent one to PRWeb. I built a website. I sent emails to everybody I knew. I paid for a couple of online advertisements. I bought PublishAmerica's book about promotion, read it from cover to cover, and wrote down a marketing schedule for myself, which involved asking my local library to do a reading, contacting the local paper, trying my local bookshop again (if I had an article in the paper, they could no longer refuse me!), then visiting all the neighbouring libraries. In the meantime, I would take a copy of my book to all the main bookshops in London, send it to reviewers and newspapers, etc. etc. To do all this, I needed lots of copies, so I ordered 100, and it cost me over $1,000.

Then I had my first real shock. Somebody posted a message in my guestbook telling me that PublishAmerica was a scam, and directing me to the Never-Ending Publish America thread in the Absolute Write forum. I sobbed for days, and couldn't sleep at night... in the end, I went into denial. I did not want to believe I'd made such a terrible mistake.

I proceeded with my promotional plan. I took my book to the local library. They told me it would have to go to their head office for approval, and then I heard no more from them (two months later, I discovered that they won't stock vanity publications on their shelves). In the meantime, I proceeded with plan B - and visited the major bookshops in Central London. That's where I finally had to face the truth - about the vanity publishing, the outrageously high retail price and PublishAmerica's bad reputation.

Wizardess Born (only 192 pages) is priced at £12.50, while the average market price for similar fantasy books is about £4 to £5. So there I was, trying on my own to market an over-priced book that bookshops did not want. What chance did I have?

I asked PublishAmerica to please terminate my contract, since I’d bought 100 copies, all my friends and relatives had bought it, and I was unwilling to promote it any further. I pleaded with them, offered to buy my rights back, threatened, reasoned... but they refused to let me go.

I don't know if I'm egotistical, but I somehow have a huge affection for that book, for the story and for the characters. Even though it's young adult fantasy, it contains a great deal of me in it. What has happened to it feels so horrible, I can't really explain it, I think only another person who has had a similar experience can truly understand. I would far far rather it had remained in a drawer for ever...


PS: PublishAmerica claims to have about 13,000 authors under contract. I did some research and, according to my calculations, the average number of books sold in total for each of PublishAmerica’s titles is about 70.

Author: Paul Cilwa
Date:   10-05-05 22:00

I've also had a book published by PublishAmerica. It's too soon yet to tell whether I'll be sorry or not.

Some background: I've been a technical writer, and had four books on Windows programming publised in the '90s (two by Coriolis, two by Wiley and Sons).

More recently, I co-authored a book ("The Sun City Cannabis Club") with a friend who actually owns a small press, Okey Dokey Press. So that was a guaranteed sale from the get-go.

"Midnight Harvest" was the first novel I'd written and I had been unable to place it with a conventional publishing house or agent. I have to admit, I also hadn't tried very hard. Every now and then I would do up some query letters and mail 'em out, but I'm a pretty busy guy with my "day job" and couldn't really invest the same extended effort into marketing my book as I had writing it.

On my last round of queries, PublishAmerica replied. That was about a year ago, and my initial search on the Internet for BAD THINGS about them didn't turn anything up. So I went into the process alert but without preconceived notions.

They never asked me for money, which was a plus. They did ask for names and addresses of family and friends and local newspapers. I wasn't happy about the family and friends bit, but I couldn't really expect free copies for them all, either. And my only consideration about the addresses of local press was that I live in the Phoenix, Arizona area--don't they already KNOW the local papers? But by then it was too late for me to back out; and they were still the only game in town.

They had offered to look at my ideas for a cover. Among other things, I'm a graphic designer. I did a pretty good cover and they used it as is. (You can see it at their web site, http://www.publishamerica.com/greetingcardpro/createcard1.asp?PostCardID=10684 .)

I have also worked as an editor (on technical newsletters) and was given a choice of having the book edited, at no cost to me. I accepted. Nothing of significance had to be changed. (I think they found three misspellings in my manuscript.) I was given two chances to second-guess the editor. Layout was done in the same step.

The two author copies I received for free are nicely printed and bound. Whoever did the layout work did a nice job.

On the plus side, the book is listed with both Amazon.com and BarnesAndNoble.com. On the minus side, it is priced at a rather high $19.95 at the PA site, and a breathtaking $24.95 at the Amazon site.

"Midnight Harvest" was my first novel. I still think its a good book, but I've moved on from there. If PA sells ANY copies, I'll be satisfied. "Sun City Cannabis Club" is doing pretty well and is up for an award or two.

I'm currently polishing a third novel, "Avatar", and I plan to really work at getting an agent for this one. The way I figure it, if ANY book of mine does well, it will increase sales for ALL my books. We'll see if that theory holds water.

So, bottom line: I neither despise nor praise PublishAmerica. They are what they are; they can be a stepping stone for someone who wants to make writing a career, or a handy way to get a small book published for a select audience. Unless "Midnight Harvest" sales go through the roof without my having to make a personal effort--not very likely, I admit--I do not expect to publish a second book through them. But I'm sure not going to begrudge them their seven years' ownership of the rights; that was MY agreement with them and I stick to my agreements.

Oh, one last thing--a lot of these posts have mentioned that PA doesn't accept book returns. That was true, but they have changed that policy. So we may see an improvement in shelf space in "brick and mortars" in the future.

Author: Lucia Bibolini
Date:   10-06-05 04:12

I have learnt to read between the lines with any PublishAmerica advertising. Looking at its book returns policy, recently advertised by email and on its website, I think this is the sentence that should give us pause:

"Please bear with us as we must do this gradually, in order to enable our wholesaler Ingram to accurately activate the new status on roughly eleven thousand books that are currently in print, starting with the titles that are selling more than 40 copies in September (libraries and individuals who order more than 40 copies this month are receiving a 40 pct discount; phone orders only at 301 695 1707)."

I imagine that quite a few eager authors bought 40 copies of their own book so as to qualify for the returns policy. A great way for PublishAmerica to make a nice round sum in a hurry! (Maybe to pay Encyclopaedia Britannica for damages related to the court case this October)

I'll be interested to see if the return policy does any more than that.

I believe that when authors buy their own book from their publisher, they are in fact paying to be published. Even the 50% author discount, on an over-priced book, means a tidy profit for PublishAmerica.

Unfortunately, I was swayed by the rah rah cheerleaders on PublishAmerica's author forum, and one year ago I bought 100 copies of my book - which I ended up giving away or keeping, since shortly afterwards I realised that any promotion was going to cost me a lot more time than it was worth. Even giving it to bookshops to sell on commission meant lowering the cover price by about 50% and paying the bookshop another 50% commission. So I would have been selling at a considerable loss.

When I visited the London bookshops to see if they would stock my book, the biggest problem was the cover price (mine is £12.50 for a 192-page book, which normally should cost about £4.00-£5.00). For that reason alone my book stood little chance of sitting on a shop's bookshelf.

The second reason was that any bookshop manager can recognise a print-on-demand book, or POD. There's a huge number of POD titles on the market. Anybody who writes a book these days can get it printed-on-demand for a small fee through a vanity publisher, or even free of charge through Lulu (and, of course, through PublishAmerica). If bookshops were to stock all the POD books on the market, the sheer weight might cause them to sink to the centre of the earth. So a shopkeeper will normally avoid any POD books. However, online bookshops don't have the same problem of space - it costs them very little to include a book title on their website. So POD books remain available online, which serves little purpose for an unknown author. Who is likely to browse through the millions of POD books online to buy an over-priced one? I tend to buy books by authors I don't know when I visit a normal bookshop, but never online.

The returns policy ranked third in the list of reasons why a bookshop will not stock a PublishAmerica book.

Author: Timothy Stelly Sr
Date:   01-02-06 14:16

PublishAmerica Author To Seek Changes Via Class Action Suit

Timothy N. Stelly, Sr., author of the books “Tempest In the Stone” and “The Malice of Cain,” is organizing PublishAmerica authors to file suit against the company. Stelly says the company misrepresents itself and accuses the publisher of breach of contract. Furthermore, the company is accused of poor record keeping and an inability to accurately track author sales. Stelly says, “It should not be up to the author to track his own sales, which is impossible. You trust that your publisher will live up to their claims and pay you what you have earned and do it on time, per the contract you signed with them.”

He cites Anne Crispin, co-founder of “Writer Beware,” who says that “We would have no complaint if they'd just be honest about what they were." Various websites have posted comments critical of PublishAmerica’s contracts, calling them not only misleading, but one of the most unfair in the business. Internet sites such as Linda Roberts’ “PublishAmerica Sucks,” Preditors and Editors, AbsoluteWrite.com, Writer’s.net and Writing.com have posted hundreds of tales of woe in regards to PublishAmerica authors. If the word “PublishAmerica” is typed into the Google search engine, one will find a slew of horror stories from authors voicing their displeasure.

“Authors need to do more than complain about PA, we need to organize,” Stelly said. “I know duplicity when I see it and I want to save hard working, unsuspecting authors time and heartache. No one has the right to degrade your dream.”

Stelly says when authors confront the company about their shoddy editing, promotion and unwillingness to pay authors on time, PublishAmerica takes on an adversarial tone. “They offer to help the author only if they change the tenor of their complaint,” he said. “They expect you to kowtow, figuring that the unhappy authors can’t organize.”

PA calls itself a “traditional publisher,” but is actually a POD (Print On Demand) company. Their books are seldom found in the bricks and mortar stores as insinuated in their contract. Furthermore, orders for PA books are difficult to fill and the customer must often wait several weeks before receiving their book. Most stores will not allow PA authors to host an author’s signing unless he or she purchases a set amount of their own books in advance.

The company promised to issue press releases to local papers and Stelly says they never did. They also promised to make the books available for review, but the only reviews he found were on Amazon.com and Forbes.com, that had been submitted by friends and relatives.. When Stelly requested five copies of his book to send to black reviewers (he is a hip-hop author), the company declined. Instead, Stelly sent out more than 1400 e-mails and flyers to black college bookstores and student organizations, book clubs, writer’s groups and afrocentric newspapers and bookstores around the country. He also mailed out 300 letters through the USPS. Stelly says he has received e-mails from as far away as Montreal, Canada and the UK from people who have purchased “Tempest In The Stone.”

Other PA authors were surprised to find that the company’s reputation is so tainted that they cannot join the Writer’s Guild of America for two years. Stelly contends unhappy authors should be given the rights to their work and be paid damages for inaccurate accounting and breach of contract. Stelly sums up, “Once upon a time I was proud to be a published author. Now I feel as if I’ve never been published, at least, not in the traditional sense; or by a publisher with credibility.”

To join this suit, contact Timothy Stelly at: stellbread@yahoo.com, or stellysr7@aol.com. For more information about Stelly’s experience with PA please read his article at www.publishamericasucks.com.