Author: Leon
Date:   08-07-03 17:31

I'm getting conflicting advice on whether to self-publish or not. I heard the advantage to self-pub is you own the rights to your project and can still shop an agent for a major pub. house at the same time. Those against say that you should wait to secure an agent because it's the easiest route and no investment necessary.

My status right now is (fiction)book finished, agent interested in seeing project after reading synopsis, but I'm still thinking about self-pub.

Can anyone out there give me the solid pros and cons of self-pub or direct me to a good site with good info? I appreciate it.

Author: Gary Kessler
Date:   08-07-03 17:38

Owning your own rights doesn't mean much if no one wants to buy them--or if you aren't networked to sell them yourself or don't know how to do so (which is the usual situation for self-published books). And once you've self-published the book, you've already used the most important rights involved for that book.

If you self-published a book, there are very restricted conditions under which any agent or publisher would be interested in that book ever again--far less of a chance of selling that book again (it's already been published) than if you hadn't self-published it in the first place.

Self-publishing a book is not really a means to have someone else reprint that book.

Author: Leon
Date:   08-08-03 10:43

Thanks, Gary. I now recall hearing that some time ago. Seems the best route is to definitely do my best to obtain an agent before thinking about self-publishing.

Author: yustas kotz-gottlieb
Date:   08-09-03 01:54

Leon: If you wrote a manuscript that has commercial value and could capture readership you have a chance to publish it. I already have a publishing house lined up for a novel I finished recently. But I also have an art book in the making that would hardly interest a commercial publisher. I would rather self-publish it having requests from the Internet readers then wait some 10 years or more before publishers would find it profitable to print books on art.

Best,
Yustas

Author: Robert Stephenson
Date:   08-13-03 02:15

Yeah, yeah, Yustas (Translate in OZ as Useless)

Gary has it right.

Rob

Author: yustas
Date:   08-14-03 01:50

Rob: other people do another compartment of my name:
Justice.
Yours is also peculiar and is not offensive at all, as art is famous to be useless.

Harry was wrong.

Yustas

Author: anon
Date:   08-15-03 09:03

check out sfwa.org/beware/printondemand.html. The pros and cons of fee-based print on demand publishing.

Author: Jennifer Lawson Zepeda
Date:   08-22-03 15:14

Robert & Gary,

Sorry, but I disagree entirely! Self publishing for me is a means towards advertising one more way, only the reader can order my book and provide it word of mouth as well. For a mere $500, in advertising, that is nothing! Plus it is tax deductible.

It's tangible advertising, something you can guide people towards to have the product, read it, discuss it and get your name out there. Any advertising and exposure is better than sitting on your hands and waiting for someone to bless you with attention! That's pure marketing!

As for publishers having interest or not because of self publishing? It has little to nothing to do with their choice, as long as you aren't signed up as an exclusive with the company and have a release clause. There are even those out there that are saying that POD's will be required for traditional publishers to look at you in the future. They may want to see how well you sold without having huge advertising budgets as a matrix for how you would sell with one.

It's true, you need to have a comprehension of basic marketing principles to accomplish any sales. You also need some revenue to dedicate to promotional campaigns, advertising, and PR. This is true of any marketing campaign though. The more you put towards advertising, the more sales revenue you generate!

The truth is times are changing! Readers don't care whether your book is published in traditional ways or by a POD. If they like the content, they will seek you out as an author. If they don't, even the BEST publisher can't do you any benefit. Many of us, with an interest in non-mainstream genres, seek out our literature in unusual ways anyway. For instance, I prefer Hispanic/Latino literature. Therefore, I've learned a long time ago to find my literature anywhere BUT a traditional bookstore and publisher. Why? Because they rarely consider the stuff I like. It's not mainstream enough...oddly enough, that's exactly why I love it. Hence, I seek most of my literature through Amazon.com and Universities or on Forums. The bookstores usually only have two shelves of anything I might like. Amazon.com has a gazillion books to choose from. I like those odds better!

Author: Gary Kessler
Date:   08-22-03 16:16

With all due respect, JLZ, I don't think you are far enough into this venture of yours to have much of an idea at all what it really means. You do seem to have easily latched into the hype (and to have learned the basic means of promoting yourself is to get in people's faces and repeat your message several times through a bull horn), but most of what you have heaped on us on this board about your book has been pretty starry-eyed "oh my gosh, I'm good, because I say I am," albeit pretty interesting in content.

Your total experience in the world of publishing is . . . what . . . exactly? You don't even have your first book on the street yet. Will be interested to hear your tune in about three years. (Much before then you probably will have learned what those 100 "promises" of sales is really worth.) Not saying you won't be a success; just saying you sound too naive and uninformed right now about the whole deal to have any idea what you're talking about.

I will also be very interested in how successful your theory is (as you note in the query letter you posted) that you can promote this book to being traditionally published by first self-publishing it with 1st Books. (And being asked for partials or to look at it isn't getting it sold. May I presume it hasn't been professionally edited?)

My views on the topics under discussion are not from any animosity to any form of publishing (I've used them all)--but from actually working in the busines and having researched the different means of publishing a lot and deciding not to fool myself about anything I find in that research. I find them all useful for specific purposes. Not trying to sell you on what I say either. By all means take what you can use and discard the rest. That's fine with me. You'll find your own reality--whatever it is.

One assertion you make that I agree with and that I don't think has been discussed enough on this board is that the readers themselves don't care how the book was published. I agree with that. What they do tend to care about, however, is how sloppily it has been written and formatted and whether or not they can find out the book exists at all. On these two points, traditional publishing has maintained the edge.

So, if you do write a book that holds together well and falls within the format and style the publishing industry uses (and readers subconsciously expect) and an appropriate reader finds that book under his/her nose, no I don't think they care whether it was produced by Simon and Schuster or the author herself. Concerning you own book now coming out in 1st Books, I can pretty safely predict that unless you have had it professionally edited and are prepared to pour a whole lot of your own money, time, and effort into dynamiting it out of the POD morass all by yourself, you're going to wind up disappointed in the results.

Author: Gary Kessler
Date:   08-22-03 16:28

Ah, well, the dangers of adding during proofing:

graf two, line two, make read: . . . sales are really . . .

graf four, line two, first word, make read: business

last graf, line three, make read: . . .Concerning your own . . .

Oh, and good luck with your endeavor, JLZ. (I'm think you're going to need luck in coming down off your cloud without getting yourself banged up.)

Author: Gary Kessler
Date:   08-22-03 16:50

Oh, and one thing I forget to explicitly say, but perhaps deserves emphasis of its own:

JLZ: If this book of yours gets picked up by a traditional publisher as you say in your query letter is your goal, it most likely will be in spite of your having first self-published it with 1st books, rather than because of that. Most self-published books thereby lose their chance of ever being reprinted by a traditional publisher, although there are some reasons why they sometimes are:

--The book may indeed be blockbuster good--in which case, a traditional publisher would have picked it up anyway (the fact of being previously self-published having no advantageous effect on the reprint decision at all).

--The author may subsequently become famous/marketable (for other books, for stupendous promotion of this book a la M.J Rose, or for something like becoming a serial killer), and a reprint would become advantageous.

--The book's subject matter or style might suddenly become
fashionable and marketable.

--The publisher might determine that it's a good book for a significant-size market the original self-published book simply didn't mine (I've adopted self-published books for a publishing house for this last reason.)

Author: Jennifer Lawson Zepeda
Date:   08-22-03 16:58

Gary,

Sorry to burst your egotistical bubble, but my total experience in the world of PR/Marketing/Advertising is 10+ years. In addition, through that, I've dealt with the world of publishing, spoken to, partied with, rubbed shoulders with editors for Hearst Publishing, Cahners, CMP Media, Ziff Davis and such an odd array of Publishing companies, in that 10+ years, that I've learned a trick or two. It happens when you attend tradeshows and go to press rooms and meet editors who you instantly click with! Oddly enough, you even become known in those circles for invitations to other functions as has occured with me.

I've written and been PUBLISHED so many times in a professional capacity, through articles in magazines, advertising pieces, and press releases for our products that it would bore you to tears...which I assume wouldn't be such a challenging feat with your supreme arrogance and naivety. I'm not claiming those pieces for my publishing credits, because they were product promotions for companies I worked for and technical in nature, and have little to do with my fictional works. But I can assure you I have a portfolio of writing that would make you feel as silly as I think you are! In addition, this is hardly my first novel, although it is the first novel I've seriously decided to market.


As a matter of fact, I'm now using my contacts in the world of publishing to promote myself with those editors, who can bring me to the attention of their publishing houses. Oddly enough, those contacts are the people I quote as telling me that POD's will be a mandate in the future and that agents are pretty pissed off about this, because this may impede on their chances to have commissions on works from the onset of the project. In addition, I've had some fairly interesting discussions with traditionally published authors, with several books out there in my genre, who seem to disagree with your "wisdom" as well. I wonder why?

How odd that you don't know me, yet you presume to define my experience in your own limited boorish fashion. Honestly, I found your post somewhat comical, if not completely naive. I might suggest that you lose a bit of the arrogance as that era of literary pseudointellectualism has been done and went out of style YEARS ago.

Come to the year 2003, my friend, and try to join the rest of us in reality! For it is clear, that even with all that so-called "experience" you state, you are still in the same ranks with the rest of us. Which is why, I presume, you are posting here WITH US, rather than enjoying the fruits of your creative magnum opus???

Author: Jennifer Lawson Zepeda
Date:   08-22-03 17:03

Perhaps, a professional editor would provide you some benefit? Maybe that's why you suggest it so emphatically

Author: Gary Kessler
Date:   08-22-03 17:11

Well, with that background, your experience in launching your 1st books book should, indeed, provide interesting and useful insights for those on this discussion board. But they will, of course, be more useful in what actually happens rather than in what you project will happen in your pumped-up publicity splurge. Do keep us posted on the reality as opposed to they prelaunch hype. What's more arrogant than clanging cymbals over projected hype, I wonder. :-)

What you say in your last post, by the way, tends to strengthen rather than weaken my statement that if you sell your book to a traditional publisher it will be in spite of having self-published it with 1st books, not because of it.

This all raises what I think is a very interesting question. With all these great connections in the world of publishing, why is it again you are self-publishing with 1st books rather than just granting some panting traditional publisher friend the right to publish your book?

Good luck with your over-the-top campaign, though.

Author: Gary Kessler
Date:   08-22-03 18:04

Well, I poked around a bit on you and your book, JLZ (didn't find any signs you've actually published anything in print--or that you're any special gift to the national PR world, either). And although I'm sure throwing insults at me makes you feel great, I've just got to say that your "Ya jus gotta buy this Edsel" campaign you've unleashed on this website--presumably to pump up sales (but entirely premature if the book doesn't come out until January 2004)--may be burying what could be a good book in a lot of over-the-top smoke and mirrors.

Good luck with it, though. Will be watching to see how/if it goes anywhere from its 1st books launch, because am always looking for signs of further opening up publishing options.

Author: Jennifer Lawson - Zepeda
Date:   08-22-03 19:05

Gary,

You are indeed amusing with your arrogance, but what an extremely petty little man you are. Do you REALLY fashion yourself as the resident expert here? On what basis?

Frankly, my dear, I'm not interesting in "poking around" on you. I'm also not interested in justifying myself to one who fashions himself as the last word in publishing. With all this "wisdom" about the formulas which provide a writer with a direct line to publishing, I should think you should have reams of books published by now! Yet, until now, I've never even heard of you. It's unlikely from your attitude that you even have one book published. Even if you did, if your attitude is reflected in it's pages, then I should say that it would make for some rather tedious reading. It's enough to say, that you should get over yourself.

I'm not here to exhale on the accomplishments of my profession, to such a small man or anyone else. I was simply addressing your rediculous assumptions about me. In the world of publishing novels, I'm as new as anyone else here. The difference between you and I would be that I have a wealth of contacts who have told me various opinions on what your magical formula is. I also realize that there isn't a magical formula that works for everyone. I assume any logical person can see this by the various methods with which various authors arrive at the end goal.

How interesting that you've discovered the secret to gaining recognition though! Have you shared this secret with Simon & Schuster or Harper & Collins, or even Hearst Publishing? Because I'm sure with the layoffs they've had, they are dying to know what some schmuck named Gary Kessler, who is virtually unknown, claims is the "right way" to approach their pitiful little business.

Do us all a favor, Gary. Publish something and get known before you pontificate on how this is all done! Otherwise, you are basically just another Joe, waiting to be picked up, like all of us, and your opinion is only as valid as the other kind folks here. As for me, I'm going to remain "starry-eyed" as I go to dinner with a friend of mine from Cahners Publishing, and and editor he knows from the SJ Mercury News to discuss my book in two weeks. I'll be sure to ask him if he's ever heard of Gary Kessler, and tell him you seem to know this magical formula for publishing. He should be quite interested...LOL

And yes, Gary. I am trying to get an agent at this time and hopefully obtain publishing for my novel in traditional means. Why? Because clearly, I don't have the same budget for advertising my book as they do. Yet, I'm not going to sit on my hands and hope some icon in the publishing industry discovers me. That seems far too complacent for my style!

Author: Jennifer Lawson - Zepeda
Date:   08-22-03 19:24

In answer to your silly question..."With all these great connections in the world of publishing, why is it again you are self-publishing with 1st books rather than just granting some panting traditional publisher friend the right to publish your book?"

Are you really THAT naive? I have YET to see anyone that even had celebrity status, (which I obviously do not,) who hasn't been forced to submit their manuscript for publishing. How many years experience did you claim to have????

Am I pumping my book out there? You bet'cha! If you aren't then you are even more innocent than I presumed. Apparently, the concept of marketing has completely missed you along with many other things. I'm not sure if you are angry because you have competition or because you simply have a desire to be *****y, but I'm beginning to pity you. If it suits you to be the king of such a small house, my dear, then by all means, rule your "castle." In the meantime, until I see evidence that you are someone worthy listening to, I will regard your comments in the same light as I do other haughty people. It's one of the reasons I've never liked the literary world, even though I've worked in my field for so long. There are too many psuedosophisticates in literary circles, who fashion themselves as the last word on everything.

Coming from a long line of creative folks, as in a father who published his art, a grandmother who published songs, and a wealth of friends who've published books, I find your act someone humorous. As the words of Thomas Art Benton, the famous artist, "I'd rather hang my art in the privies of America, than prostitute them among the snobbish galleries of phonies." Maybe that's why my father was compelled to paint an oversized vagina, which hung in the Academy of Art for some time, for the benefit of phonies like you, who fancied themselves as critiques. These "accomplished" people appreciated the painting of a "lovely forest." Gary, go enjoy your forest!

Author: yustas
Date:   08-22-03 22:44

Dear Jennifer:

Please know that the art world is not only polluted by untalented jealous gatekeepers who supposed to stop artists who show promise. I know all about the wonders of the art world when a teacher plagiarize his talented student's work and bad mouth about that student in a special secretive way while praising him in public as he would not want to be called prejudice.

I know how that young promising artist would claim his rights to his work but even though the scandal supposed to slow the plagiarizer teacher down, the work would be circulated and sold no matter what.

From many other similar situation I have to say that there are many bad people and there are good ones too. If you are good you expect others to be like that, but when you come across that special mean creature that perhaps is born like that you feel astounded that there are people like that. Now I accept this fact but whenever I could I try to express how little do I care and respect those self-proclaimed gatekeepers. They can't keep nothing closed from the potency of youth and passionate drive to break any wall.

I grew up with artists and musicians however my parents were in science. But they wanted me to go different way and I was privileged to acquire serious classic music and visual art education.

The behind the scene picture of the art world is corrupted by the untalented and jealous losers. I am not at all bothered by those knowing that they only could bark if you show them weakness. If you use their own weapon they back up.

I am glad to hear your open expression that shows no fear. I want you to know that there are goodness in literary circles and talent always finds patronage no matter what the ill-wishers attempt to do, slow you down, criticize you to death or else.

Truthfully yours,
Yustas

Author: Roy Abrahams
Date:   08-22-03 22:59

The amount of time advocates for self-publishing spend justifying their actions always amazes me. It's almost as if they are protecting their psyches from those who know the lack of value in going a non-traditional route. Ms. Zepeda has posted enough words on this thread to stack up to War and Peace. For what? To disagree with a man who has a lifetime of experience in the editing/publishing world?

Author: yustas
Date:   08-22-03 23:02

there isn't a magical formula
they are dying to know what some schmuck


LOL

Lovely Jennifer:
You have the attitude of the winner and when some local preacher of editors to be the "superior human beings" sees this sort of attitude he starts to drool poison. By all means editing is important but it could be done by people for some 2 bucks a page while you can't get a novel for this type of payment. So who then is supposed to be on the higher ground? The artist, the writer, the composer and other culture workers.

I went through a less comprehensive discussion with him on other matters and realized that he is another example of a die-hard pencil-neck. I was advised by the webmaster never to reply or address that individual. And happily I am not discussing any issues as it is similar to talking to a religious fanatic,

To you I want to say that I admire your honesty and courage and intellect.

Sincerely,
Yustas

Author: Gary Kessler
Date:   08-22-03 23:05

But you must admit that these two make a well-matched set, Roy. If they settle down to romancing each other, the rest of us win. :-)

Author: yustas
Date:   08-22-03 23:09

Roy:
I have a lifetime experience in arts that doesn't stop you arguing with me as if you are an expert on that issue.

Did you call me names and tried to threaten me?

You live in the long gone past. You can't hold on to it and time will teach you best lesson. Nobody here is able to persuade the lies of you and the other "expert with life time awards."

I subscribe to opinion that any publishing is good as I know that now the exhibitions that took place in the artists apartment and even in some public projects are considered just as respectable as a show at the Met.

I have urges to spice up my comment with few words that would be censored but I am not interested in the immediate comments on those words. I just have the urge and want to exercise free speech on this level by acknowledging this urge to you.

Yustas

Author: Jennifer Lawson - Zepeda
Date:   08-22-03 23:31

Please do show me the man who has a lifetime of experience in editing and publishing without any credits of his own, and I'll show you a man without a dream or a goal. I hardly think Gary Kessler has a lifetime of experience, but given that he's convinced you, then I must say I've found that man of men who fails to reach his dream in an entire lifetime. How utterly sad! You have me feeling a deeper sense of pity for the man now!

Author: yustas
Date:   08-22-03 23:42

Exactly.

Jennifer I finally found your page with your writing and would take my time in reading it. I have to tell you that I did researched the criminal conditions in New York City for my novel I just finished recently.

So I am interest in this subject and I think it is a good subject for writing, real contempo and cutting edge.

Yours,
Yustas

Author: Gary Kessler
Date:   08-22-03 23:52

Not that I want to continue the discussion, Jennifer, but in your zeal to push your book, you seem to have missed so much on your way into this website in the statement on my "credits" that you've made repeatedly here.

First, if you'll look at what it says right under that big "WritersNet" sign at the top every page, you'll see the words "Writers, Editors, Agents, Publishers." That's a hint that this discussion board isn't just for as-yet unpublished authors, as you've asserted a couple of times in your postings above. I don't post here as an as-yet unpublished author. I'm posting as a career professional editor (newsagency executive editor for a big slug of years, professional book copy/substantive/development editor of 87 traditionally published books thus far, including a best-seller) and publishing house insider (I'm filling in for the managing editor of a major academic press even now), as well as one whose family owned a trade publishing house. I've been posting here to try to help prospective authors gather information to improve their publishing chances--despite the occasional person like you who prefers to chew on my hand.

Second, you seem to have tripped right on by the home page to this site, on which there is the cover image of a published book--the only such image there--and which, Surprise! has my name on the cover. (Not to mention the "Agents" page with my article on how to find an agent and/or publisher)

Third, in your self-absorption in pushing your book, you've also somehow neglected to see where many posters here have profiles you can click on. If you had clicked on mine and read it, I doubt whether you would have said all that nonsense about my experience and publishing past in the first place--and you'd even have been led to a professional website with fuller information.

So, goodnight and good-bye, Jennifer--and for the third or fourth time, good luck on your book campaign. You're going to need it. And you're also right that there's nothing I could help you with--because you aren't listening.

Author: Jennifer Lawson - Zepeda
Date:   08-23-03 00:07

The world abounds with blubbering fools, who pontificate on matters they know little about. This person is not unique even in that regard. However, the world of literature also abounds with talented people who write simply because they are passion driven and want to communicate with others about their feelings, experiences, joys, sorrows, and imagination. Few of these people fashion themselves as experts, however they have valuable things to say. It has been my experience that those who underplay their knowledge, usually have the most of it.

I absolutely agree with your appraisal of the art world. Unfortunately, like literature in some regards, it is managed by people, who learn to anaylze things so deeply that the entire picture misses them. They delve into the meaning of things, diving into some abyss, where they can't focus on the reality before them. They are usually bitter, haughty types, who consider themselves on a higher plane than the rest of us.

I'm reminded of Frasier Krane on television, that amusing pompous character in Seattle, who mourns life more than he enjoys it, fashions himself as an elitist expert, and is constantly undergoing introspection on why so many others easily toy with him. While that makes a great comedy show, the reality of that mentality is truly sad.

There is no bravado in dealing with people like this. It's like kicking a dog when it's down. I've noticed that this character pontificates on most of these boards and continually fashions himself as the moderator, resident expert, and in his own acidic manner, continues to try to boost his own ego at the expense of others. Rather than posting his opinion, he makes an effort to be condescending and rude. While that may win him an award for incredibly bad manners and a complete lack of social comprehension, it offers little more. And yes! When he is addressed with his own style in return, he stomps his little feet on the ground and screams "life is not fair!" He does this rather than recognizing how his pompous behavior brings the worst out in others.

Gary and Roy, I'm not here to play your game. I'll save that for the people that like to waste an inordinate amount of time on pompous fools like you two. I'm here to learn. If you have something to teach, then I believe you can do it with a degree of decorum and confidence rather playing the Frasier Krane game. Because believe me, in my career, I've met much better "experts" than you!

I believe this is a forum for people interested in literature...be it authors, agents, publishers or editors. If you are looking for a place to release your stress levels from your lack of accomplishment in the world, why don't you try one of those Yahoo forums. They have a bevy or "resident experts" in those places.

Honestly, I'm inclined to question Gary's expertise in editing, in that he can't even seem to edit his own posts BEFORE he posts them. If that's the best I could pay for, then please, by all means spare me. I think I can do much better on my own.

To be honest, Mr. Kessler, I am usually the LAST one to criticize writing in a forum. I HATE that spell check mentality, because it only breeds a severe lack of imagination, in it's efforts at anal retention. But in your case, I have made the exception, since you are hailed as the resident spell checker. One might think, that for your professional portfolio, you may want to master the edits before you post. That way, poor souls like me, will be sufficiently impressed enough to seek out your wise tutoring or feel compelled to hire you if we need this type of service. Having said that, I would NEVER remind a person in a forum of their errors as I don't feel we are writing a Masters Thesis here, or even anything other than an opinion. I'm sure you know what they say about opinions, right?

Author: Jennifer Lawson - Zepeda
Date:   08-23-03 00:09

You may want to check my bio...I'm married. I'm not of the impression this is a service for dating online. Did that part miss YOU? That might explain the bitterness in your posts.

Author: Jennifer Lawson - Zepeda
Date:   08-23-03 00:13

I'm interested in seeing your book of art. Let me know when it's released. I'm known to spend hours with my husband on weekends browsing art shows. Art, literature, dance and cultures are a few of my passions...and my four mutts...LOL

Author: Jennifer Lawson - Zepeda
Date:   08-23-03 00:35

You see Gary, as I stated before, I have no interest in you, either as an agent, an editor, a writer, or a publisher. Something you don't seem to comprehend in all those "years" of experience is that authors CHOOSE who they want to represent their work, not vice versa.

With your bitterness and lack of social acuity, it's highly unlikely I would want you to represent me in any manner. I'm afraid your arrogance might turn off a viable opportunity and Gary, there are MANY editors, I would turn down in the same manner. I'm not sure what you are accustomed to dealing with, but please don't EVER confuse me for one of insecure writers, willing to prostitute all they represent for the simple opportunity to gain publishing. This is too funny! I think you actually believe that all writers are just dying to get there so badly, that people like you can boost your egos at their expense. WRONG!

I have spent many years writing. I have three novels under my belt and a wealth of short stories, poetry, and lyrics. I also have technical work that I could spend hours listing. To this day, I have never made a serious attempt to publish my creative writing, because I felt that writing was sufficient if only ONE person appreciated it. Because to me, Gary, writing is a process of creating an interesting story, nothing more, nothing less. Having grown up with people in the arts, I've been exposed to the arrogance in the industry. It has always been a turn off for me and in my youth I didn't even wanted to be identified with that arrogance.

You see Gary, I've grown older and wiser and unlike you, I'm still learning. Because of that, I've changed my position on this, and I'm entering into this world I once detested. However, make no mistake about it! I'm not about to allow small people to demean me, in order to have my work published. Why should I? There are so many gifted and talented agents and publishers out there without your attitude, that I don't even have to worry about it.

The fact that my query generates a response in a day or two, with a request for my completed manuscript tells me that I might be on to something. The fact that virtually every stranger that reads my stuff tells me they like it, may indicate something too, because in all honesty, that wasn't my initial expectation. I was prepared to hear the worst. In no way do I feel I'm a gifted writer, but I know that I've got one hell of a story to tell. And that Gary, makes editors and publishers fight to get to you if you are any good!

You are correct that only time will tell if I am marketable. But one thing is for sure, if and when I accomplish this goal, I most CERTAINLY WILL NOT represent myself with the airs you put on. Maybe it has something to do with breeding!

Author: Jennifer Lawson - Zepeda
Date:   08-23-03 00:45

I should add Mr. Kessler, that if you are such a profound editor/agent/publisher/writer, then how DO you find the time to contribute to such petty posts? That alone, would suggest to me that you may not be one I would want to represent my financial interests. I would want a person who is knee deep in representing authors and contacting publishers to help me in my ordeal.

As for me? Well, as I've said before, I'm just passing time, waiting to hear if any of the manuscripts I've sent out are accepted so we can move on to the other stages of publishing. Unlike most editors/agents/publishers/published writers, I have an inordinate amount of time right now. I surmise that won't be true once the ball begins rolling down the chute.

I might add that this site is not too difficult to add material to. How much does a banner to advertise your book cost, Gary? I believe ANYONE can list their book on a site such as this, no? Maybe I'm wrong?

Author: kotz-gottlieb
Date:   08-23-03 10:13

Beautiful Jennifer:
There is a suggestion about me romancing you in the above comment. I visited your site and have to say that I do like you, however you have a picture with your husband that means you must be very close to him if you have him on your literary site.

He must be some lucky guy because there is nothing more beautiful then creative woman with spicy character. I am 100% sure you would succeed in selling your book and how you would publish it doesn't matter at all. The comment above that you and I make a nice pair that should go ahead and romance each other proves that male chauvinism is loosing grounds. I grew up with my mother who divorced my father when I was six or seven. However my father was not chauvinistic as he was German who married a Jew.

Still I could never understand why majority of men enjoy putting down a women thinking she has genetically less intellect.

Those are men of low class and it is a common knowledge, I am not discovering America here.

Smiles,
Yustas

Author: Gary Kessler
Date:   08-23-03 10:25

So, let's see if I've got this straight. You've found another date for the prom. :D

Author: Jennifer Lawson - Zepeda
Date:   08-23-03 10:41

When people have little to say, they generally show their true identity. The fact that a "so-called" editor, would reduce a conversation about publishing to commenting on my relationship status tells more than I think he wished to.

One would assume that if this person were anything more than a message board "know-it-all" with valid editing contracts and all, he wouldn't have the time for all of this. Also, if he were a shade or two brighter, he might have found substantially BETTER material with regards to my relationship, since my entire book is based on it...LOL That would lead me to question his editorial skills as well. Gosh! I mean, with the premise of my book, I should be an easy target for miserable men on a mission to try to pump their own ego!

Thank you for the sweet comments Yustas. Your wisdom and personality is contagious!

Author: Jennifer Lawson - Zepeda
Date:   08-23-03 10:45

Honey, some people attend the prom without a date and have an equally LOVELY time. I've been known to attend many functions sans date and enjoy myself immensely. Try it sometime, that is, if you have the courage to do so. Because it seems you may be the type that needs a date to bolster your courage or as an arm piece. Either way, it doesn't say much for your character.

Author: kotz-gottlieb
Date:   08-23-03 11:02

Jen, honey pie:

Avoid responding to the old fart. He is known to gain attention like that. He feels being in the center of "literary" discussion.

A man who makes $2 a page for editing can't afford a woman like you so don't get this urge to change him.

We should discuss your writing better.

I find it creative. I want to read next chapter that tells you this, I am someone who wouldn't read anything dry or in bad taste, I read complicated art books on postmodernity and philosophy. I find your writing very good as it takes my mind of the complexity of art theories. I feel rested reading about natural that you figured is the right thing for writing. You are absolutely right. Life has to be natural and allow simple pleasures. Philosophy is depressing. My book has a lot of philosophy but I did mixed it up with situations such as criminal investigation, inside the jail, teenagers, sexual encounters of many sorts.

What is your further or previous chapters? Reflection of your discovery of life? I am curious, but I know that as a writer you would rather keep it a secret.

And I repeat you are a visionary if you realized that now is the time for your writing. I am a "whitie" and I want to know what you have to say. The above retrograde whities would never acknowledge hidden interest to your subject, but they are dying to look at life through your eyes. Don't expect to hear it though.

Yours,
Yustas

Author: Jennifer Lawson - Zepeda
Date:   08-23-03 11:41

Yustas,

You have me howling!

My book is written in a simplistic stye purposely to provide the reader with a feeling about the characters and relate to them, but the issues within the book are hardly simple.

Most of the chapters are evolved around our experiences in Mexico, living in some fairly interesting scenarios. The overall theme of the book is woven throughout the stories, providing the reader with a disturbing love story which evolves along the way, although hardly in the classical romantic sense...LOL. This is why I discuss the issues through the eyes of Jenny, rather than Neto.

Each chapter contains a mini story which contributes to the overall theme and highlights my theory on the effects of institutionalized racism. Each story explains an issue affecting the Latino community or the perceptions of others about our community. The book is highly political in nature and has an extremely subjective philosophy, but I tried to keep from preaching as much as possible, and simply tell these philosophies through the simple stories. I'm afraid in the end, I let it all hang out and brought all of it together in more direct way. However, I feel it may be received well anyway, because I'm hoping by then you are so engaged in the characters, that you want to hear the message and solutions.

Author: kotz-gottlieb
Date:   08-23-03 11:57

Jen, sweetie:
Pleasure is all mine. Not that often you come across someone like you. I have no gain to be telling you this. Nothing but the truth. I suppose this is German blood in me that makes me straightforward. I never judge people on the base of race. However living in New York you could see all the best examples next to the worse.

I think your political stance is honorable and could only enrich the book. I also write about social injustice but in a way of ruminations by mentally ill so that reader don't feel any pressure and preaching.

I am interested to read Latino life while Gary would expect me be more interested in Hitler's biography written by conservative historian.

Ysts

Author: Croc Guy
Date:   08-25-03 10:34

I have published 2 books, one POD, one through a well thought of publisher. The publisher did a great job as I figured they would due to their name and reputation. However I have made more money, been as well reviewed, and had more control with the POD book. My POD publisher uses high grade material and is very much interested in my books success.

I have sold 1000's of each book. The POD book is in circulation via targeted stores and through niche' distributors.

I also like being in control of my own deadlines and such, something I didn't have with the publisher. So for a guy who likes total control, POD is a good way to go. Especially when you attack niche markets like I do. The big negative is the lack of color photos at this time, I'm sure within a reasonable amount of time they'll work the bugs out of that. Can't stop technology.

Having said that, I put alot of time into editing my POD book. Way more than the traditional book who will pay to have my work edited. I had my POD book edited profesionally after sending it to a few language teachers for error checks. I would highly recommend using grammar teachers for editing if you do self publishing. I paid a pro and they found few errors after going through the teachers. I could have saved some bucks.

Personally technology has given alot of good writers good options. Personally I see no more 'value' in my traditionally published work than my POD work and in many ways appreciate the POD work more as it is ALL mine.

Just my 2cents, caught this after an internet search.

Author: kotz-gottlieb
Date:   08-25-03 10:52

Dear Croc:

I totally agree with your position on self-publishing.

By the way I am currently planning to self-publish a book on art of Paul Jaisini that includes mostly text. Would you recommend the POD publisher you used. Searching for the right one is a tedious task unless you know someone who is satisfied.

Yustas

Author: Croc Guy
Date:   08-25-03 11:25

I used armadillo publishing in Austin TX. They do a very nice job, they are not a mass market POD. Alot of quality, time and care. They are not the cheapest but will do a great job for you.

The link is

http://www.armadillopublishing.com/

Good luck and happy writing.

Author: yustas
Date:   08-25-03 18:29

Dear Croc:
Thank you for the link. I will check it out. There is a difference between a printer who wants to make money without concern if the client would return and other business that wants to build reputation. I want the one that charges for quality. Many POD simply rip of the writers not expecting them to come back. If this is a good printer I own you one. I am looking for quite some time now and started to think of traveling to the Orient to find an offset printer and give an order then ship it to the US. Certainly it is not that convenient but quality of POD I found through the Web search in not satisfactory for me personally.

Yustas

Author: Croc Guy
Date:   08-26-03 09:43

Its a good one, really good quality. It's not a typical POD, not sure you can really even call them one. They print the books, you buy they for whatever. Mine costs like $5 to produce and has like 25 photos, I charge $15. I make a good profit. They are great folks.

Author: yustas
Date:   08-26-03 09:56

Did you figure out what printing process they use, what type of ink. What paper? I checked the site but they don't have any information unless I download a file or get the brochure by mail. I ordered a brochure but it would take time.

I gather they charged you $5 for a book. How many pages in it? How many books you had to order to have this low price?

I would appreciate if you could answer.

Sincerely,Yustas