Author: Bob Kellogg
Date:   12-03-02 15:15

Akas make an interesting comment on my Chapter 3 posted below:

"Top choice' a bit colloquial too. Okay as a part of dialogue but not otherwise."

My feeling is that the narrator's style, especially in 1st person novels, is an essential ingredient in the authorial "voice." Voice is a slippery concept, and one that I've had a difficult time grasping. However, it seems that all 1stP books immediately give the reader a taste of that voice --if you don't mind the mixed metaphor. I've stopped reading several books in the past couple of years in which the voice annoyed me. And I'm fully aware that by writing in first person, I'm risking the same thing.

But isn't that true of any novel? My recent objective is to develop a 3rd person style that is as close to 1st person as I can get. Some call it "limited" and some call it "subjective." I'm doing this because when I first started writing fiction seriously --with a serious committment to developing my craft-- I was criticised for not letting the reader get to know the characters. I was too objective, too much concentrating on the action and interaction. Readers today strive to understand the characters and count on the author to help.

One sidebar: I've heard a couple of comments that, to my surprise, assume Hard Place would fit in the "hard-boiled" subgenre. I certainly didn't start out that way. Is it because most of the PI novels were 1sp person narration? Or is it style --using something like "top choice?"

But what Akas may be referring to is a narrative style that is more formal. Traditional novels have been that way; no contractions, for example.

What are your thoughts on the matter(s)?

Bob K.

Author: Kaz
Date:   12-03-02 18:22

Hi Bob,

It is the unique emotional feel of the author that lends the voice or tone to his writing. I always think about vocalists singing the same song. Since it’s near Christmas, lets say the song is White Christmas and it’s sung by Bob Dillon, Bing Crosby, and Louis Armstrong. Even though the words would be the same, the renditions wouldn’t be. Each singer would give it his own style of beat and rhythm.

The state of mind of the first person narrator, or of a third person character when speaking (dialogue or narrating), or thinking, is the voice. Either one is capable of drawing the reader into the know regarding the character. The real difference is, with third person you aren’t limited to everything stemming from the protagonists mind. You also have the limited or attached narrator to visit other scenes where the main character may not be present.

There is a sense of intimacy with first person because it’s the most personal. Readers are focused on one person and how everything else affects him. There is less distance between first person and the reader. Sometimes this can be a drawback though since the reader is locked into only one viewpoint, and, in a sense, feels everything the narrator does. One must also be careful that his protagonist doesn’t go into a coma, or get killed.

Third person limited (attached) isn’t too close to the main character as first person, nor as distant as omniscient. In this voice, most of the story focuses on the protagonist’s POV, but some chapters could be in other character’s POVs.

I don’t know if this has directly answered your question Bob, but hopefully it’s food for thought.

Regards, Kaz

Author: Liz
Date:   12-03-02 21:32

Kaz, that was very educational, especially for those of us coming into writing by the back door. Thank you.

Author: akas deodenal
Date:   12-04-02 01:12

Dear Bob,

I have started writing only recently( creative writing) and I have little experience of editing. What I bring to the board are the likes and dislikes of a regular reader. It is not that Mike the Sculptor's voice jars, it is just that I would have expected a sculptor to have more refined sensibilities. I thoroughly enjoy Mickey Spillane but then I had expected a more Lawrence Sanders type of character. I confess, my knowledge of the craft is limited to military writing, what we call Minor Service Duties, to wit: Crisp Clear and Concise Communication. So don't make too many allowances for my observation, because we are reading your work in penny packets, it is difficult to get the feel. It may be that 'top choice' would be the phrase that most people like him would use.

Do post a largish sample and ask the simple question to guys like me if we felt like reading it to the end. Experienced hands like Glen, Kaz and Russ would tell you just what needs fixing.

warm regards,
Akas

Author: Bob Kellogg
Date:   12-04-02 10:55

When we post writing samples here, the most we can expect is a reader's reaction. In fact, a reason to post is hopefully to get the reaction of a variety of people and their opinions. If the reader goes beyond that, great; it's a bonus.

Interesting point about Mike's lack of more refined sensibilities. This novel could be written in a number of ways, one of which would concentrate on his art, his artistic friends, the art world in general. Perhaps I'll do that some day. This particular story, however, was intended to be something that would fit in the mystery genre.

Another clue to Mike's nature is the fact that in the workday world he's a marble mason, a subject I know well. That means, in addition to installing marble or granite in people's homes, he might work on construction projects. A foot in two worlds, you might say.

As to posting more, I believe that it's much better to post a chapter at a time on a site like this. Don't want to hog Hamish's server disk space. Is there a way for us to delete our own posts?

Thanks again, Akas. I may post chapter 4, if I have time.

Bob K.

Author: Pat Brogan
Date:   12-04-02 11:08

i personally love (not like) first person... it is great looking through someone else's eyes... it brings the reader in and makes him/her care... i have had good reaction in that realm...

i wouldn't write any other way unless i get better at 2nd and 3rd...

i guess reporting the news helps journalists who write first person... you are writing conversational and hopefully making it real to the listener/viewer... it's very intimate and though it can get hard,,, it's worth it...

another two cents,,,

pat brogan