Author: Corey Griffith
Date:   11-24-07 22:42

Okay, here's the deal. I know, without a shadow of a doubt, that I have the talent inside me to be a published author. Im good enough to make a living doing it. I just KNOW it. It's something I love to do, and I've always done it, as far back as I care to remember. Short stories here and there. Poems. You know.

But of course to be successul at it, you have to have actually finished something.


What I mean is, I've decided to write my first novel, and although the storyline is sound (I hope), and the characters strong (I hope), it is just an incredible chore to sit and write it.

It's not so much that I haven't got the entire story fleshed out completely, as in "this happens, then this, then this, then this, and so on" so that every scene is worked out in my head, the basic "bones" of the story ARE.

And I know that it's my job as a writer to put the flesh around those bones and create, ultimately, the finished project.

(God I hope Im articulating this propersly)


And to do that, of course, I need to just sit and the damned laptop, adn write it down! Get the fingers on the keyboard and WRITE!

But here's the rub.

I dont WANT to write every day. In fact, I dont want to write most days.

But not because I dont love writing, I do!

But, I dont want to write anything, unless I know that when I do, what comes out will be nothing less than brilliant! I wait for the muse to tell me that it's time to write. Then and only then, do I write.

Now, I know, I know. I've heard everyone tell me:

"If you want to be a writer, you need to read. And you need to WRITE"

Every Day.

So there's my dilemma.

I want to make a living doing this thing I love, but I only want to do this thing I love when Im inspired, because Im afraid that on the days that I sit and force myself to write uninspired(and I do from time to time) that it'll just be absolute crap and not worth reading, and I can't bear to do that.

What do I do?


Am I holding myself to too high a standard? Should I not be so damned worried about what's readable in my opinion, and just exercise the damned creative muscle every day, regardless of the quality of what comes out?

What if I sit down to write, but I can't think of anything to write? What if I dont know where to go next in my story?

I dont have a lick, not one IOTA of formal writing education. I've never taken a writing class.

Im sorry to rant so much and vent like this, but Im really needing help.

I love to write. And my novel, once written, will be really good! I believe in my talent!

But damn! It's hard work! And Im just afraid that if I write when Im not inspired, it'll be crap.


Im sorry for the rambling, but please, any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Author: Keith .
Date:   11-24-07 22:56

JMO
Writing for money is a business, and very few actually make a living at it. It is also hard work requiring gobs of discipline. You don't sound ready for any of this, so write for pleasure. Write for yourself. Finish your ms and go from there.

BTW, the first draft always sucks. Someone said there is no such thing as a great writer, only great re-writers. True dat. Luck.
km

Author: jayce
Date:   11-24-07 23:27

I love to write.

You said it five times.

I don't want to write.

Three times.

My opinion: You don't have a jackass's clue of who or what you are inside. Grow up and sober up. And by the way, you're not afraid, you're merely lazy.

Author: gulliver h
Date:   11-24-07 23:33

sorry, but what a load of crap.

writer's write.

(oh, and btw, everyone writes well in their HEAD. And lots think they can write. You aren't breaking new ground here.)

The interim step is seeing if you're right and there's only one way to do that. (writer's also rewrite. Constantly. Interminably. It's what make them writers who succeed.)

Author: Jeanne Gassman
Date:   11-24-07 23:55

*wow* I'm speechless. This is either the most honest post or the most incredibly juvenile and immature post I think I've ever seen from a writer wannabe.

Okay, how do I say this without sounding totally sarcastic?

You say you love writing...but you don't want to write. You just want your golden words to fall perfectly formed onto the page--and only when you feel like sharing them with the common folk. The rest of the time these beautiful words will remain in your mind, hidden from the world. You know you're really talented and destined to make a living at writing, but...you don't want to work at it. You just want someone to recognize that talent and pay you for it because...??

Mmm. Going back to the first statement. Yes, you love writing. You just don't love it enough to actually write.

I guess it's a lot like the way I love having a clean house. I love the idea of spotless floors, clean counters, and everything in its place. I just don't love it enough to pick up a mop and begin. :)

Jeanne

Author: Mark Phillips
Date:   11-25-07 00:57

Guess what? You aren't James Joyce. By that I mean, for most of us, writing is work. Hard work. It's reading, it's writing, it's re-writing every day. That means everyday. I write everyday. The only time I'm not writing is when I finish a novel. When that happens I take a break of a couple weeks or so and then I move on to what's next. That's usually a short story.

Geniuses like Joyce and Faulkner, they could write whenever they wanted. They didn't have to follow rules. They were so brilliant that they just made their own rules. Truly brilliant writers like those two our born not made. No ammount of learning that anyone does here will ever make them like Joyce or Faulkner. So as I said, for the rest of us it's work. Constant work to try and get as close as you can to that type of brilliance.

In short, if you don't want to work at writing, you'll never be any good at it.

Author: Bran Down
Date:   11-25-07 01:02

I too love to write. I finished my first novel over 20 years ago. It was awful.

I left writing alone for a while after that. Instead I read.

I read for about a decade.

Now I am back to writing but I have no illusions about getting published. Though I do know (beause editors have told me) that I can put words together well.

I have to say that the satisfaction of completing a story - be is short or long - is sufficient for me. Sure I still send out query letters. But my satisfaction comes from competing my stories to the point where I don't want to change a word.

Write for the sake of writing, not money.

Author: David Baker
Date:   11-25-07 01:17

Don't worry about it. Write when you want to and it will come. With any luck you will end up with a brilliant book just like mine www.itsmawdsley.com;)Just do it!

Author: JL Riffe
Date:   11-25-07 07:18

Well, if you are going to make it...

You are going to have to learn to write when you love it and when you'd rather be off having a root canal. Otherwise, no excuses.

Lots of people have great writers locked up inside. The ones who make it are the ones who summon up the discipline to achieve thier goals. This holds true for all endeavors in life. Things don't get done by wishfull thinking alone...

Author: nom de plume
Date:   11-25-07 10:23

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a d@mn.

Author: Kitty Foyle
Date:   11-25-07 10:53

Corey, who has ambivalent feelings about writing, wrote this: Am I holding myself to too high a standard?

Yup.

*_*

Author: Granny Ten
Date:   11-25-07 10:57

I'm with nom de plume - I don't give a d@mn either. Writing is hard, every good thing well done is, but we do it because we love it. We do it because we cannot not do it. To me, rewriting is the most fun. Going over and over it until it is right (for me). The thought of golden words dropping onto the page with no work kind of turns my stomach. Joyce and Faulkner could write just when they felt like it? I doubt it very much. Geniuses worked just as hard as the rest of us. It's just that when they finished, the result is better than ours. Like Hemmingway writing the last Chapter of a Farewell to Arms 50 times, or Jack Kerovac writing On The Road in six weeks and then rewriting it for six months. Life is work.

Author: Ce Ce
Date:   11-25-07 13:18

Aw, let him agonize about how to get those golden drops of perfect prose out of his lazy head. I, also, don't give a damn.

But could somebody shoot that David Baker troll? Every two cents he offers on any thread is just a desperate invitation to go take a look at his website and buy his vanity tome.

Author: Mark Crawford
Date:   11-25-07 14:18

Hey, a lot of people here are giving you a hard time but I know what you mean.

I have tried to right about 20 novels based on 100 ideas that I have never finished. I have just started my proper novel which I know will work.

I have the same feeling where on the bus home you say to yourself, I'm goanna du pages 5,6 and 7 tonight, then read a book and write a chapter. Remember school? Your favourite lesson might be hard work but that's no reason to give it up. I fyou want to do something but can't quite get to it, then do it.

Yes, writing his hard but if you're not enjoying it then you shouldnt do it. I love fantasising about doing doint it but will you actually stanjd up and wirte that story? You know what you want to say, but van't wuite work out how to.

Work it out.

good luck, and remeber not to be to ambitious, do what you can and don';t what you can't.

Author: Sangay Glass
Date:   11-25-07 14:40

Relax a little.

You sound too structured and it's putting stress on you.

Getting in the habit of writing everyday is easy.

Join Helium.com and start rating, and eventually a topic is going to inspire or bug you enough for you to be complelled to write an article.

If you are having trouble thinking at the keyboard...

go for a long walk.

I like to think on my feet..then I go home to write what I saw as a movie in my head.

Author: Ce Ce
Date:   11-25-07 14:41

Is it just pure laziness (the topic of the day) that allows so many posters to litter their notes with typos and other mistakes? Do they just not GET that on a writer's forum it's bare courtesy to polish even your posts before clicking on POST?

An occasional typo or misstep is one thing; we all have those. But if virtually every sentence contains a mistake, to me that says a lot about both the skill level and the attitude of the poster.

I know I'm cranky today, but still ...

Author: Kitty Foyle
Date:   11-25-07 15:49

I know what you mean, Ce Ce. Yikes!

Maybe some posters forget to wear their specs when they're at the computer -- and don't even know what they're typing. ???

*_*

Author: Corey Griffith
Date:   11-25-07 17:01

So, after sifting through all the sarcasm, bile, and derision, the advice Im getting (from those of you who didn't just chime in to let me know how you "Don't give a damn") is this:


Don't worry so much about what's quality or what isn't quality, per se. The important thing is to write. Every day. Whether you feel like it or not. Whether you think it's any good or not. The act of writing is what's most important here.


Is that what those of you who were actually polite enough to provide a little advice were trying to say?

If so, I thank you. I was just looking for a heads up on what everyone else does, and what I should do.

I suppose I should also thank those of you who decided to chime in with nothing helpful whatsoever, other than to tell me that Im lazy, or I think Im a genius, or whatever. Or being sarcastic with crap like "Aw, let him agonize about how to get those golden drops of perfect prose out of his lazy head. I, also, don't give a damn."

To you, I say thank you. Thanks to you, I know exactly what kind of person NOT to be. You show me how NOT to speak to someone. And don't give me this "Im just being honest" crap. NO. You're being an @!#$.

You could very well have simply read my initial post, then answered with straightforward advice, as I asked.

And if you have no constructive advise to give, you could have opted to do the polite thing and say nothing.

But you didn't do that. You just haaaad to open that big, gaping e-maw of yours and let the venom spill forth, didn't you?

Now I suppose you'll reply back with more flaming about how if I can't take criticism, I shouldn't be writer.

Try not to break your arms patting yourselves on your own backs for your cleverness.

Author: Jeanne Gassman
Date:   11-25-07 17:52

Corey,

If you want an honest answer, it was the arrogance of your tone that set people off. When you say things like:

Okay, here's the deal. I know, without a shadow of a doubt, that I have the talent inside me to be a published author. Im good enough to make a living doing it. I just KNOW it

it comes across as smug and self-serving. And it doesn't help your cause that your post is loaded with typos and/or grammar errors. I'm not being sarcastic here. I'm being honest, okay?

This is a writing forum. It's one thing to make a claim to having talent; it's another to exhibit that talent in your posts. The first place that should start is here, in a casual post. Those of us who are really serious about our craft take the time to proof our posts for spelling and grammar problems because we care about our professional appearance. And make no mistake about it--you are judged by your posts here, whether it's fair or not.

Personally, I found the idea of writing only when you're inspired to be rather offensive. Why? Because I take my work very seriously, and I go to work every day--even when I don't feel like it. If I were a professional musician, I would practice my instrument for hours every day. Why should you assume that the writing profession is any different?

Successful--and published--writers write every day. They write their way through the crap because they know the beautiful writing doesn't just appear on the page. Yes, there are those moments of magical inspiration where you are "in the zone" and everything comes out absolutely perfect. Later, you may even wonder where those words came from. But those moments are rare and few between. More often, the words are crap--except for that one sentence or even that one paragraph that's really pretty good. Then you go back and revise, WORKING to bring the rest of the crap up to the golden standard of that single sentence or paragraph.

I can't remember the source, but a famous writer once said something like "a writer needs to write about a million words before he's really a writer." That's a lot of practice!

You say you have talent, and that may be true. I don't know, but I do know that if you have ten times more writing talent than the average person, that's still not enough to succeed in this business. Talent will only carry you so far. If you do nothing to develop and refine that talent, it stagnates and dies. And with ten times the talent of the average person, that's still only about ten per cent of what you need to make it. The other 90 per cent comes from practice, persistence, and perspiration.

Good luck to you. If you want to write that novel, start writing it. And when you feel less angry and defensive, come back and post an excerpt for feedback. If you're ready for a critique, you'll find out then how much talent you have and how much work you may still need to do.

Jeanne

Author: Kitty Foyle
Date:   11-25-07 17:54

I don't know about Ce Ce, but my last post had to do with hard-to-understand sentences like ... about doing doint it but will you actually stanjd up and wirte that story? You know what you want to say, but van't wuite work out how to.

What was that all about?

As for you, Corey, all I can say is that we all need a certain amount of self-discipline in order to accomplish anything that's important to us.

Which reminds me, it's time for me to play the piano again. (It took many years of hard work to get to the point where I am today -- damn good!)

*_*

Author: nom de plume
Date:   11-25-07 18:19

Corey wrote:

"And if you have no constructive advise to give, you could have opted to do the polite thing and say nothing. "

Why?

Several times recently, I (and others) have been given this advice by people posting rubbish. Explain this to me. Why do you have free speech to post rubbish but I don't have free speech to point out that it is a load of crap?

Actually, I have something constructive to say: the noun advice is written with a "c".

Please start writing and don't deprive us--starved readers--of that Nobel material of which you're apparently capable.

Author: Cara K
Date:   11-25-07 18:24

Corey--

Just write. It's too easy to not do something--anything--because you don't feel like it. If you want to be a serious writer, then get serious about it. Don't worry if your work is crap; that's what the 'delete' button is for.
IMO, I think a lot of people took offense at your original post because your laid-back attitude was a bit disrespectful to the craft, to which we all devote so much of our time and energy. I could be wrong, and I'm not laying blame.... It's just a thought. Good luck.

--CK

Author: Murg
Date:   11-25-07 18:35

Corey, the best analogy I can come up with is that of a concert pianist. I've always wanted to be one. My dad was one. His mom was one. (His dad played violin). I just KNOW I'd be a good one. Only thing is, I never wanted to spend the time actually learning how. Except for the scales of course. Kind of like writing. You learned the alphabet in school, but the art of writing professional (repeat - professional) prose, or poems, is practice. I don't mean this with sarcasm or to demean in any way, just a thought.

Author: Johnny Kid
Date:   11-25-07 19:04

Hey Corey, I don’t think you realize how you came off in that first post.

You’re standing at the foot of a mountain that everyone here is already climbing so there won’t be much sympathy for you. We’ve all been where you’re at and have made the decision to push on. I don’t think you realize it but you casually diminish writers when you say that you’ve never written anything but you know you’d be good at it, because plenty of writers are busy at their computers every day trying to be good at it.

And I’m sure all of us have heard the same things. Some teacher, a friend, family members etc. probably said “you’d be a great writer,” you’ve probably impressed yourself with your creativity a few times, etc. but it sounds like you have no idea the struggles that will come next if you think that what you’re going through now is struggling. I’m even willing to bet that if you finished an MS, came back and looked at this thread, you’d probably cringe.

Anyway, I think in the end, all the responses here will have been a good thing for you. It seems you have this romantic view of writing that simply doesn’t exist. Writers don’t sit on a beach somewhere and wait for inspiration to hit them, they sit down and write.

Author: JC
Date:   11-25-07 19:21

Damn. I guess I'd better return my black turtleneck and beret, then.

Author: Ce Ce
Date:   11-25-07 20:00

I tried on a beret once.

Be glad you can't get the visual.

As for Corey the petulant, if he has an ounce of that talent he claims, he'll swallow his pride, apply ass to chair, and put in the time. He'll produce a lot of crap, and maybe some gold, and in time will know whether he's a writer or only a sometimes-wannabe.

I suspect we'll never know.

Author: Tony D
Date:   11-25-07 20:19

Jeanne:

I really enjoyed your reply to the post. I am about half-way through my first novel. At the beginning, the words seemed to flow effortlessly. In these middle chapters, however, I have found it difficult to stay on task, and find that my writing is less than perfect. I am having to revise and revise to improve the prose. Your words were just what I needed to hear. Even if Corey doesn't "get it", some of us are glad that you "veterans" out here care enough to give some honest critique and advice! Thanks. Tony

Author: d. Leroy
Date:   11-25-07 20:21

Gotta love those who want something for nothing. Sorry dude, but for me, as well as most of the legitimate people on this forum, too much has been sacrificed in pursuit of this dream to care about your superfluous vapor talent.

Author: Lewis R
Date:   11-25-07 20:31

Corey.

I have finished a 127,000 word novel. I loved it when I wrote down the last words. I jumped up with glee.

My oldest brother told me about 'writers.net.' In an instant I posted the first part of chapter one. It got mixed reviews.

What I discovered was that I used too many adjectives and adverbs. I am still doing the re-writes.

And here was me thinking I was going to be a noted writer. My god, I don't half got a lot of work ahead of me.
___________________________________

Murg.

You used the description of a concert pianist. Something similar here.

I used to paint. As a result I now see writing in the same mode of a portrait. In my painting days I would do the sketch. Then I would fill with pastels or oils. Then came the real work. Standing back, examining the canvas, touching up where necessary. Sometimes it would take me days just to get one little bit right.

This site had helped me a lot Corey. There are professionals here. Listen to them.

Will I ever be another Oscar Wild?

I don't think so.
_______________________________________

JC and Ce Ce.

You actually owned a Beret?

Damn it! You guys must be rich. I had to return my head hankerchief.

My regards

Lewis

Author: Corey Griffith
Date:   11-25-07 20:31

Jeanne Gassman,


I can certainly see, reading over my post again, how someone could get that impression, but let me say, that was ABSOLUTELY NOT my intent. I would never BRAG about the talent I think I have. Im just confident that I have the talent. This is just based on input Ive recieved from various members of the Dallas/Fort Worth Writers guild, of which Im a member, and of one editor that came there as a guest who listened to me read some of what Id written thus far.

It isn't my intention to appear smug or self serving. Far from it. Im asking for advice. Im just confident in my talent, as I think someone should be. Everyone's got something they're good at, and god knows Im not good at a lot of things, but writing makes me feel good and I like to do it.

But if I came off as an arrogant, lazy prick, that was not my intention.

Author: JL Riffe
Date:   11-25-07 20:32

Corey,

Folks here do indeed offer up tough words. However, the reality of writing and getting published is far tougher.

Sugar coating what we have to say won't do you any favors. Writing is tough, the writing business is even tougher. There are no two ways to articulate this point.

Sit down and write, every day whether you feel like it or not. If it is too hard for ya, try Med School. It is far easier to make a go of.

Author: Corey Griffith
Date:   11-25-07 20:41

I forgot to add a thank you, Jeanne. I appreciate your comments and I certainly see your points.

But more importantly, you answered my question. That being, "should I write when Im not "in the zone""?

Since you took the time to answer in a polite, concise manner, I was able to absorb what you were saying and take it to heart.

I now realize that writers (remember, Im new at this. I dont know what's NORMAL or not. I dont know what the average writer does or does not do.) write every day, like working out. Whether you want to or not. Which means that sometimes a writer (not just me) churns out what he or she thinks is uninspired drivel. And where's the pleasure in that? This is all I wanted to know.


I didn't want to get attacked for asking for help.

Author: Jeanne Gassman
Date:   11-25-07 20:49

Corey,

Fair enough. In the flush of your enthusiasm, you overstated your case. The Dallas/Ft. Worth Writers Guild is a good organization. Do you belong to one of their critique groups? I won several nice awards at the Craft of Writing Conference in Dallas one year (don't know if that's in my profile or not). I think they were sponsored by the D/F Writers Guild.

My advice to you is this: If you really want to write your novel and make a go of this as a career, set some goals. Train yourself to sit down every day and write for a certain time period or until you reach a certain word count. I work better by writing for XX number of hours every day. Other people prefer to set a goal of XX number of words. You may need to experiment to see what method works best for you.

You should also get involved in a critique group. Try to find one that meets regularly, has strong leadership, and is composed of experienced and inexperienced writers. The regular meetings establish deadlines (a good practice for any writer). The leadership is necessary to keep egos and idle chatter in check. The mix of experience and inexperience has multiple benefits. You will learn much about the craft when you have to help someone who doesn't have your skill or ability. You will also learn a lot from those who have solved problems you are struggling with.

As I said earlier, good luck. Now, get to work on your writing projects. Pop in here once in a while when you need a break or just to pick up a few more tips. And when you feel that you have something ready for critique, feel free to post an excerpt (but come with a thick skin; as you've seen, not all comments are fair or kind).

Jeanne

Author: Jeanne Gassman
Date:   11-25-07 20:51

P.S.

Ce Ce, my dad used to wear a beret now and then. He looked quite dapper in it. Of course, he was French! :)

Jeanne

Author: Corey Griffith
Date:   11-25-07 21:06

You'll be happy to know, Ce Ce, that I have, indeed, made the decision (largely based on the posts that I've seen here) to begin writing daily, whether I feel like it or not, because now I see that is what all writers do.


But now, I have a couple more followup questions for everyone. They are, I hope, innocent enough.

First, as a beginning, aspiring novelist, how much time is a fair amount of time to devote daily to writing?

I have a full time job so the only time I have is on my days off, where I can devote hours on end to it, or on the days when I work where I have only an hour or so. Im actually writing my posts here while at work).

I dont want to "burn out" on it, but seeing as this is now my chosen profession (hopefully) I understand that burning out is not an option.

So should I start slow, like someone starting an exercise regimen and just write, say, a half hour a day, working my way up to more time over the course of a month or so? Or should I just get right into it and write every possible moment I have to spare? Or is this a personal preference thing?

How much time does the average professional writer spend writing every day?


Seondly, when you do sit down and write on those days you just dont feel like it. As Jeanne said, you can't be "in the zone" every day. If what you write isn't necessarily "on topic", i.e. has anything to do with your current project, what DO you write about? And what do you do with what you've written at the end of a session?

Lets say you spent the day banging away at the keyboard, going on and on about nothing in particular but writing, nevertheless, do you keep the what you've written? Or just say to yourself "well this isn't useful" and just delete it?

To me, deleting even a sentence that I've written makes me feel angry at myself. Angry because what I wrote wasnt good enough. I tell myself that everything I put down on paper (or the computer) MUST BE PERFECT. Otherwise it's not worth writing. This is why asked if I was holding myself to too high a standard. I was wanting to know if I was being too hard on myself to expect that level of creativity every time. And as I type this, I realize how ludicrous that sounds and how even more ludicrous it is to expect that of myself.

Dammit, I rambled again. Im sorry.


I would also like to say, again, that it was never my intention to come accross as cocky or arrogant. That couldn't be further from the kind of person I am. IRL, Im a generous, caring guy that values his friends and his family and hates it when someone dislikes him so much that I sometimes lose sleep over wondering what I did wrong to that person. (too much info?).

All you have to do is read some of the feedback that I've given to others who've asked for critiques or opinions to see that Im a nice guy.

Really. I am.

Author: Corey Griffith
Date:   11-25-07 21:24

Jeanne,


Yes, the DFW Writers Guild is all about the critique. What you do in an average meeting is:

Show up, get your coffee and cookies, and find a seat on one of the folded chairs. Wait for everyone to settle in.

News is gone over, and guests are introduced, eating up about a half hour.

The, we split up depending on what we'll be reading that day, between poetry, and/or prose.

We then find seats as designated tables and after the "head" of each table sets the rules for the new folks, we all take 15 minutes reading what we've got, then another five minutes being critiqued on it.


I should admit that the beating I took here is nothing compared to the absolute crucifixion I suffered when I read my very first peice there, thinking I was the next Stephen King. It was an abysmal fifteen page rote of nothing but narrative with a total of 3 lines of dialogue.

I was massacred. But I have learned so much from everyone there.

In fact, the day that the editor I told you about praised me in front of everyone about what I'd written and encouraged me to seek her out when I was finished, was the happiest writing related moment of my life.

Sorry, I rambled again.

Author: Jeanne Gassman
Date:   11-25-07 21:25

Corey,

Don't delete your work. Save it to a file or folder as you may want to use it again somewhere else.

If a novel is too daunting, start by writing some short stories or poetry, something that is self-contained with a clear sense of beginning, middle, and end. If you want to start on the novel, concentrate on one scene at a time. And you don't have to write those scenes in sequential order. That depends entirely on your comfort zone. Don't edit or fix things until you've reached a pre-set milestone (a chapter, so many pages, XX number of words).

First of all, if you work full time, it can be really difficult to carve out daily time. But it is possible. A friend of mine (who just made a fabulous multiple book deal) has four kids. She doesn't work outside the home, but she does put in a lot of time with her children. However, she gave up tv at night to write for a few hours every evening. Another friend, who has just finished her second book, does work full time. She carves out time during her lunch hour and in the morning before she goes to work. Part of writing every day--whether it's for a half hour or four hours--is that it trains you to be more focused. In the beginning, you may feel like you're spinning your wheels. As you get into a routine, however, you'll start to write more usable prose every session, simply because you've been practicing so much.

So, how do I do it? I write in the mornings when my son is at school--usually for 3-4 hours. I take a couple of breaks during that time to stretch, walk around, do a load of laundry, etc. Some people never edit anything until they have a finished draft. I tend to edit as I go. I write a chunk on one day and edit that chunk the next day before I moved on to writing new material.

One trick I use is to stop in the middle--the middle of a scene, a paragraph, a conversation, etc. That helps me to pick up the story more quickly the next day. I also read everything out loud, listening closely to pacing, word choice, punctuation, and beats in the dialogue. Before I edit, I print everything out, because it's easier for me to see problems in print than on the screen.

Those are just my techniques. Others may have different suggestions.

Hope that helps.

Jeanne

Author: Mark Phillips
Date:   11-25-07 21:28

Corey,

You are absolutely asking too much of yourself to be perfect every time. That was my point with the whole Faulkner thing. Only guys like that get even close to perfect every time (and they're really on genetic freaks that just happen to be wired in a way to combine words in near perfect harmony. If you asked them I bet they wouldn't even really know how they did it) the rest of us have to work. Pefection (or close to it, you should know it will never be pefect) is for editing.

Now this is what I do, it's by no means the only way. When I first start a book I write two-thousand words a day. As I go along and build up the writing muscle again (I take about a month or two between books) I work up to to about three-thousand words a day. Sometimes the words come easy. I get lost in my story and when I stop to check the word count I find that I've exceeded my goal by a few hundred words or so. Sometimes it's hard and takes longer to get to my goal. But under no circumstances (other than emergency) do I stop writing until I've reached my goal. I work as well and usually do my writing at night.
Now, I don't know if I write particularly fast or not, but I'm usually able to get my writing done in about an hour or so. When I can, on days off and and such, I write twice a day. Usually I'm really feeling my book and it just draws me back. On the days I can't write twice a day I usually find myself thinking about my book and wishing I could write again.
If you do use a word count goal I would caution against checking the word count too often. Just get lost in the story and don't let the word count distract you. It can be hard at first, but after awhile you'll find that you can pretty much tell if you're close.

Good luck.

Author: Corey Griffith
Date:   11-25-07 21:39

Jeanne

It does indeed help, becuase my next question to you was when to edit/rewrite?

I find that I critique every word, as Im writing it, and therefore am constantly replacing words and phrases, moving things around, and so on, while in the actual process of writing.

I suspect this is just a "noobie" trait, and that I'll learn to be more patient and wait till Im done with a paragraph, at least, before I rewrite it.

Author: Corey Griffith
Date:   11-25-07 22:04

Mark,


Thank you very much. Out of curiosity, how many pages is two thousand words?

Author: Jeanne Gassman
Date:   11-25-07 22:07

Corey,

If you use Courier 12 point font, double-spaced with one-inch margins on all sides, you will get 250 words per page. If you use Times New Roman 12 point font, with the same margins and spacing, you should get 280-300 words per page.

That should give you an idea.

Jeanne

Author: Corey Griffith
Date:   11-25-07 22:16

So around fifteen pages a day. Yikes. Takes me a year to write that.

But....I'm diving in as of tomorrow!

Author: The Midnight Writer
Date:   11-25-07 22:56

Dude, you DON'T want to be a writer, you want to be an author. You just want to have written something without actually doing the work and be a blockbuster like jk rowling. Get over yourself.

Author: Mark Phillips
Date:   11-25-07 23:24

single spaced, which is how I write until it's done and then I format the manuscript, two-thousand words is about five pages.

Author: Lewis R
Date:   11-26-07 00:54

It's ok Corey. We all rambled on at times, as I just will.

You will find that all writers have their own system, whether they be professional or not. Some write with the flow at the time and then edit later. Others, on the other hand, edit as they are writing. It depends on the writer

As for the writers output? Well that depends on the amount they wish to do coupled with the time they have in the day.

I can sometimes write about 1000-2000 words in a morning. I actually did 10,000 in one day. It took me hours, I just went mad on the keyboard. That was a record for me. However, I did need an awful lot of editing afterwards. Meaning it was all a load of rubbish. About only 3000 was needed and I'm still re-writing that.

Also Corey I sense you are passionate in this writing career you are trying to embark on. This is good. But, as has been suggested before on this thread, you just don't walk through the door of the industry and expect to be published at first hand. I thought so at one time myself. I was so very wrong.

It is a hard crawl up that ladder, as I think you are now finding out.

As for deleting. Never do that. Save instead, or put your writings away in a corner. You never know when you might need them again.

For being perfect? There is no such thing as being perfect. So push yourself and listen to others good advice, believe me there are pros on this site. Saying that though, you must keep your own writing voice. Just get the writing craft sorted out. I am now re-writing my stuff until it's coming out of my ears.

However, you do have faults in your writing.

An example. You wrote.

“(God I hope Im articulating this propersly).”

First of all, Im should be I'm, and shouldn't 'Propersly' be 'Properly?' And there should have been a comma after 'God.'

Don't worry. I am not criticising you. Just trying to help whatever way I can.

PS:- You can have a go at my typos if you want.

Good luck in your writing dude. I hope you make it.

My regards

Lewis.

Author: Mya Bell
Date:   11-26-07 10:41

I can think of several clichés and a number of good quotations that fit this topic. It feels to me like you're in love with the idea of writing, not the writing itself.

For what it's worth, some clichés, followed by some words of wisdom:

Ideas are a dime a dozen.

Talk is cheap.

That's why we call it "work."

Genius is one percent inspiration, ninety-nine percent perspiration.

"A good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite point in the future." --General George S. Patton

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent." --Israel Regardie

"The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago. The second best time, is today." --Chinese proverb


--- Mya Bell

Author: Chuck Shaw
Date:   11-26-07 10:53

Corey
May I suggest something I tried a few times when I couldn't seem to "get on track"? Read a few pages out of a popular book & outline them. Make the outline very broad, just a list of the basic events.

Something like this would do.

Dave walks into room and man pulls a gun
Discussion of penalties for shooting people, reasons not to shoot
man with gun warns Dave to leave town
man runs out the back
Dave gets license number & call 911

Pages 31-37 of typical mystery

Put the outline away. A week or two later when you get writers block on your primary project, write the 5 or 6 pages you outlined as you think they should be written, then compare them to the original book. Don't think better or not as good, think differences.

Try to pick sections from different genres.

I do it a lot with Higgins, Maclean, Follett, Webber, Heinein, Zahn and so on. It can be enlightening. As you get more comfortable with writing you will be doing it less and less, because you won't need it anymore.

CS

Author: JC
Date:   11-26-07 10:55

Mya,

My dad's life philosophy was 'a bad plan boldly executed is better than no plan at all.' I wonder if it was based off of Patton's quote.

Author: The Midnight Writer
Date:   11-26-07 11:40

Ok, that was terribly rude of me, another prime example of ruffled feathers in response to your initial post.

Even though that was not your intent, you'll find advice all over the Internet of how not to talk to writers, and one of the first and truest gems is:

DON'T say to a writer: I bet I could write a book, I have loads of ideas, I'll just sit down and write my best-seller overnight, it sounds easy enough. It's just writing. Just a few muse-kissed sessions and I'll have some extra income, eh?

Anything similar to that pisses actual writing writers off. So there's my advice. Don't be that guy.

Also, writers write. Fifteen pages a year just won't cut it. Also, don't expect people to like you. You're picking a profession full of rejection.

You're not going to turn out an amazing awe-inspiring novel and get published the first time you send out. You just won't. In fact, you'll probably hate whatever you've written after you're finished.

So sit down, tack down your ideas and create some scenes. Write SOMETHING. Turn off your godlike ego and stop editing what isn't on the page yet. You can be a perfectionist later, during the RE-WRITES.

Also, nut up. If you want to be a writer, get used to harsh words. No one cares about your feelings in New York. That's just the way it is, so if I've offended your artistic sensibilities again, so terribly sorry.

Author: Frank F.
Date:   11-26-07 12:08

I think Corey could be a very good storyteller. Look what his first post has done - set off a firestorm of comments. Why? Because he said he knew he had the talent to write well, but he's just too lazy or afraid or procrastinating or worried that it's too difficult, etc. That's quality conflict, brother.

You've got a character (real-life Corey in this case) who has a goal and cannot attain it. What is holding him back? All kinds of crap. Will he get the novel done? Who knows!?!?!?! So many things to overcome - studying the craft, learning from failure, OVERCOMING YOUR OWN DEMONS!

I need a thunderstorm and pipe organ played by Vincent Price.

Learn from this, Corey. But if you're serious about being a writer, you have to act like a pro. You have to. Everyone says they would like to write a book some day. You have to get away from that crowd and actually do it.

Author: Keith .
Date:   11-26-07 13:16

One of my favorite quotes. I've seen it several different ways but this is the most common.

"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan later."

Author: Kitty Foyle
Date:   11-26-07 16:47

Is it just my computer? The headlines of the last four posts are black instead of blue. Ve-e-e-e-ry interesting.

*_*

Author: Ce Ce
Date:   11-26-07 19:18

Had a nice, long, note that cyberspace promptly ate.

Irritating. I actually had polite stuff to say to Corey.

Guys, what's the code here to italicize something? Thanking you in advance.

Author: Kitty Foyle
Date:   11-26-07 19:27

First type the < (It's that mark that shares your comma key.)

Then, an i (for italics)

Then the >

Start typing the stuff you want to quote.

When you're through quoting,

Type another <

Then a slash mark / (to kill it)

And yet another i

Then finish the whole thing off with another >

(Yay, you did it! Or not.) :-)

*_*

Author: Sarah Connor
Date:   11-26-07 21:30

Hi Corey,
I'll add a little bit of advice although by this point it's a little repititive.

I'm a professional writer. I have a MA and a BA in Creative Writing so I not only write but I've just started teaching as well.

Back when I was in school I got two of the best pieces of advice I've ever heard.

1. If we only write when we're inspired we'll only do it about once a year.

2. If you become a writer for money you're wasting your time. There are a thousand easier ways to make a million bucks.

On average I write about 2,000 to 10,000 words a day. However, I only write about four or five days a week. But every writer is unique in their own way. Just find what works for you and you'll be fine.

Author: Ce Ce
Date:   11-27-07 21:32

Let's see if this works ...

I want this sentence italicized.

(And if it worked, thanks, Kitty!)

Author: Kitty Foyle
Date:   11-27-07 21:36

Damn, I'm a good teacher! :-)

*_*

Author: Wonky
Date:   11-28-07 00:53

I'm probably jumping into this late, but think of it this way.

Butt+Chair=Manuscript.

The people who make a living from writing don't have the luxury of writer's block. They just write.

Author: Corey Griffith
Date:   11-28-07 15:21

Thank you for the response, bro. I appreciate you taking the time to do so, and what you say makes a lot of sense. I will indeed save my writing, whether or not I think it'su useful, as you, Mark, and Jeanne have let me know, I'll never know when I might need it, as it actually may come in handy at a later time.

And I should apologize for the poor punctuation and grammar in my posts. If it makes any difference, I DO indeed know how to spell and how to punctuate, but, when Im in the moment, and trying like mad to get my thoughts down, I sometimes miss the odd comma (or in this case apostrophe) and spelling.

Author: Corey Griffith
Date:   11-28-07 15:26

Thank you, Chuck. that's an excellent idea. I'll try that.