Death to the Word Count! |
Author: Rich DeRuvo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: 07-10-08 02:32
I'm saying it! My story probably won't be more than 50k words and it is not YA or mystery or anything like that. Why so short? Because it is, no better answer. Will I still seek representation? Yes. Will I get it? I don't know, there's a good chance I won't but I'm going to do it anyway because it is MY story and I refuse to add another 30k words for the industry. Do you know how long The Great Gatsby was? 50,061 words or something close to that! Not that I compare me to Fitzgerald or anything but I don't understand why word count is such a prime factor in publishing now (other than the fact that it makes the publishers more money). It shouldn't be about money. We are all trying to harness a craft that is difficult and time consuming enough without having to be forced to write, say, 70k words before being considered "novel/publish worthy". If I were to add another 30k words to fit this criteria do you know what would happen? All meaning in my story would be lost because it would just be in there for someone else. My story is as long as it is because that's how many words it took to tell it and that doesn't mean it's not good or deep or worthy of publication and/or recognition. I won't let the publishing world tell me that my story isn't "good enough" because it is not long enough.
And that's what I have to say about that.
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Re: Death to the Word Count! |
Author: Carl Purdon (---.static.networktel.net)
Date: 07-10-08 08:46
I'm in the same boat with my latest WIP, Rich. I finished it, posted my query here, then found out it was too short. Now I'm doing another draft and trying to make it longer AND better.
There are plenty of things I don't like about "the system" but, being unknown, unpublished and unproven, I'm not about to try and buck it.
But that's just me..... Good luck with your book.
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Re: Death to the Word Count! |
Author: Gravity Fades (---.cinci.res.rr.com)
Date: 07-10-08 09:38
It's not about the publisher being concerned about the word length; it's their being concerned about the bookstore patron.
Scenario: Patron is browsing the shelves at the airport bookstore. He has a ten-dollar bill in his pocket, and he wants something to read on the plane. He sees two novels by two unknown (to him) writers. Both storylines look intriguing. But the first book is 275 pages for $9.95, while the other is 110 pages for the same money. The buyer, deep inside, doesn't want to get hosed. And if he's going to spend ten bucks on a novel, HE WANTS HIS MONEY'S WORTH. And THAT'S why publishers set word counts as they do. Not kill your artistic vision, but because they wish to make a profit.
As others as said, it's your work, do with it what you will. But the road to commercial publication is littered with the bodies of those who "bucked the system."
Choose wisely. Good luck.
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Re: Death to the Word Count! |
Author: jayce (---.mob.bellsouth.net)
Date: 07-10-08 10:02
I won't let the publishing world tell me that my story isn't "good enough" ...
(sigh)
Publish America, he here comes.
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Re: Death to the Word Count! |
Author: Derek Wayne (---.mooreindustrial.com)
Date: 07-10-08 11:12
Rich,
As I said before, I understand what you're saying...kinda.
I've had trouble listening to everybody tell me to stay within 100,000-110,000words (I am at 124,000 and don't have much more fat to trim).
The bottom line is that although any story can be told in a condensed and concise version (even beautifully told in a few paragraphs); that doesn't make it marketable as a novel.
Don't be discouraged. Many shorter stories (novellas if you prefer) work wonderfully when compiled with other works. Maybe this should be part of an anthology.
DW
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Re: Death to the Word Count! |
Author: Rich DeRuvo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: 07-10-08 12:29
I am not trying to "buck the system" but I am also not going to conform to it. How many people here have added things to their stories that they didn't want to because of this issue? I am sure that there is a good deal of you. All it comes down to is that I won't add words and jeopardize the meaning of my story with pointless filler. I was taught to write using words and sentences that contribute only to the overall meaning. Anything that does not, is useless.
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Re: Death to the Word Count! |
Author: Derek Wayne (---.wpg.wiband.net)
Date: 07-10-08 13:01
There is a difference between pointless filler, and creating a layered and realistic world. If you are happy with what you wrote, that's all that matters. Even if you never get published, you've accomplished what you set out to do. Your book may not conform to what people want to read, but who cares...you said yourself that you don't want to write anthing that is "in there for someone else".
DW
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Re: Death to the Word Count! |
Author: jayce (---.mob.bellsouth.net)
Date: 07-10-08 13:17
What Derek said.
Stories are made richer by interweaving the main line with sub-plots which share characters, plot points, fore-shadowings, setups, etc. These "B" lines are not filler nor are they pointless (unless you consider that your main story itself might be thought pointless by someone who has no interest in reading it); they exist to enrich, deepen, and extend the main premise.
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Re: Death to the Word Count! |
Author: Gravity Fades (---.43.18.203.nw.nuvox.net)
Date: 07-10-08 13:26
I also agree with what Derek said, Rich. You've written a work that plainly pleases you. And that's not a small matter. Many painters, sculptors, and writers do just that: create, purely for creation's sake, with no eye to ever seliing their work to the general public. From your words, I infer this is your position as well, so I applaud your courage and singleness of vision.
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Re: Death to the Word Count! |
Author: Rich DeRuvo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: 07-10-08 13:47
Derek, you are the man.
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Re: Death to the Word Count! |
Author: Sail Away (---.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net)
Date: 07-10-08 13:48
Something to consider, Rich...
It takes just as much discipline to keep from rushing the end of a tale as it does to cut out needless padding.
You said this...
Yeah. My problem is that for everything I write I now the EXACT ending and I think I unintentionally just go straight towards it and it kills the word count. I felt like there was a big chunk of the story missing but I don't know where and I don't know how I can just double the word count.
This leads me to believe that you are NOT completely satisfied with your story. You probably sat down and tried to add some dimension, couldn't think of a way to do it, and told yourself that you have created the perfect masterpiece at 50K words. Maybe you have. I doubt it.
Don't give in to lazy writing. Do the work.
-SA
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Re: Death to the Word Count! |
Author: leslee (---.lsl-la.com)
Date: 07-10-08 13:55
Just my opinion, feel free to ignore:
"I won't let the publishing world tell me that my story isn't "good enough" because it is not long enough."
Oh, good.
The "publishing world" isn't trying to tell you anything. It couldn't care less.
You seem to think you're taking some kind of stand. It's simply a personal preference. Write what you want to write. If it doesn't conform, so what? If you're happy with it, and that's enough for you, what's the problem?
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Re: Death to the Word Count! |
Author: Joe Zeff (---.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
Date: 07-10-08 14:03
I've been there too, Rich. I've also had more time to think about it and come to some conclusions. Check out books from fifty to seventy years ago. You'll see that they were much shorter. Why? Did they have less plot? Oh no, they often had very complex plots. Why were they shorter then? Because they weren't expected to have subplots as well, and in general, they didn't. The average mystery, romance or adventure story stuck to the plot from beginning to end, and if the author created a "richly textured world," it was done within those confines. Today, as has been pointed out, the economies of publishing dictate longer books, and the easiest way to get that without padding is by adding subplots. Not too long ago, 50K was considered acceptable for a novel. Then, it inflated to 60K and today some people say it's up to 80. How long, I wonder, before 100k isn't enough to get you a glance from an agent?
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Re: Death to the Word Count! |
Author: Rich DeRuvo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: 07-10-08 14:18
"The "publishing world" isn't trying to tell you anything. It couldn't care less.
You seem to think you're taking some kind of stand. It's simply a personal preference. Write what you want to write. If it doesn't conform, so what? If you're happy with it, and that's enough for you, what's the problem?"
I don't think I'm taking a stand at all. I'm just stating exactly how I feel in reference to my last post.
"This leads me to believe that you are NOT completely satisfied with your story. You probably sat down and tried to add some dimension, couldn't think of a way to do it, and told yourself that you have created the perfect masterpiece at 50K words. Maybe you have. I doubt it."
Yes and no. I know when I was finished that there was something missing and I now now what it is and worked out how to work it in. But no, my story is far from a masterpiece, I can't call anything I write a masterpiece because I'm still learning.
I'm learning even now as I read some posts that are genuinely trying to help and others that are posted just to try and sound like they are better writers than me or others on the site. They probably are better than me because I am still learning as I've said but I am not trying to take a stand necessarily but just voice my opinion.
I do understand what you are saying too, Joe, and I agree. You're line of "I've been there too" is what I think we need to recognize. Everyone here has been in this position in some form or another but they might not want to admit it because they are "good professional writers".
Either way, I've taken the positive and negative criticism seriously and yes I am deepening the story with more detail in my plot and sub plots so thank you everyone who posted regardless if you understood what I am saying or not.
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Re: Death to the Word Count! |
Author: Finnley Wren (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: 07-11-08 13:01
Here's a thought.
Write something else.
Fitzgerald wrote short stories after his first novel was rejected. He later recast that unpublished novel into the first half of This Side of Paradise.
Hemingway was known for the Nick Adams stories before he became a novelist.
Nothing wrong with crawling before you learn to walk.
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