The latest ... and want to see depressing?

Ashley Grayson Literary Agency December 30, 2005
1342 18th Street
San Pedro, CA. 90732




Dear Mr. Grayson:



Did I hate him? How could I, when I couldn’t resist the desire he brought out in me? Did he love me? How could he, and hurt me the way he did? This is Angie Swanson’s dilemma.

In Victim of Love, Angie is a seventeen-year-old trapped in a brutal relationship with Stuart Black, a senior at the high school they both attend. Angie didn’t initiate this relationship with Stu; she didn’t even agree to it. Stu sees her, wants her, and takes her, and she becomes his prisoner in a cruel, painful, passionately sexual relationship. Battered and confused, Angie questions her own morals and emotional judgment as her feelings for him deepen.

Victim of Love explores the depth of the symbiosis that develops between these two teens and the lengths to which Angie must go to survive. It demonstrates the complexity of an abusive relationship, where nothing is as clear as it seems. Ultimately, Angie is as much a victim of her own growing dependency on Stu as she is a victim of his strange and terrible love for her.

At 127,000 words, Victim of Love is a story that older girls and women will find compelling, and for some, sadly familiar.

I appreciate your consideration, and I look forward to hearing from you.



Sincerely,


Kris Williams
kris.williams@wtcs.org

And here's the response (though the query is slightly different)

Hi:


Thanks for thinking of our agency.


I'm going to quickly step aside on this, because I can't imagine any editor or reader being willing to
read this. While this does seem to be a realistic character study of some victims, there is no reward
for the reader, no dramatic development (Stu always wins) and the characters don't really change.
Events do happen but with the repetitive impact of a pile driver pounding in a telephone pole.


Remember, 70% of the readers of novels are women, and I don't think they'd like this.


Regards,


Ashley Grayson
AGLA


To see what works for us consider:


Gaudeamus by John Barnes (Tor)
Moongobble and Me (series) by Bruce Coville (Simon and Schuster)
The Last Burp of Mac McGerp by Pam Smallcomb (Bloomsbury)
The Ink Drinker (series) by Eric Sanvoisin (Random House)
Dhampir by Barb and JC Hendee (Roc)
The Fat White Vampire Blues by Andrew Fox (Ballantine)




On Dec 30, 2005, at 8:29 PM, Kris Williams wrote:


Ashley Grayson Literary Agency December 30, 2005

Any words of wisdom? This is the first real personal response, to the synopsis, and it's pretty brutal. Sigh.

Well,


My only comment is this: I got the same list of novels. But I didn't get the 'help' you got with your synopsis.


David

Ouch.
IS there a reward for the reader, character change, or dramatic develompent that Grayson is unable to see in you ms.? Does Angie break away and realize that she was in an abusive relationship? MAybe the shock factor needs to be reworded into a "coming of age" or teachable work.
I don't know. Just suggesting

Thanks for sharing that, Kris. It's no doubt somewhat embarrassing, and it's got to sting, but Grayson's comment is SO valuable, not only to you, but to other writers as well. The idea of a payoff, or a reward to the reader for reading is central to every good story, but we don't always think of it in those terms.

There *are* stories that are extremely dark that get published: Stephen Elliott's HAPPY BABY comes to mind. His novel was published by McSweeney's. Perhaps you'll find a home for yours with a smaller, more edgy publisher.

Good luck.

I'm sorry - not McSweeney's - Elliott's publisher is McAdam Cage.

I think he has done you a favor.

Either rewrite the query to showcase other parts of the story (the parts he is asking for). Or query agents whose lists clearly reflect a taste for this. Or give some hard thought to the manuscript itself.

I agree. I think he's done you a big favor.

What is the plot of this? Is there any change, or is it just the main character falling in love with an abusive guy and getting beat up? If it is, I'm afraid your book won't tell the reader anything she doesn't know (dating abuse is bad). And at 127,000 words, I worry your book might seem repetitive.

Have you read Dreamland by Sarah Dessen? This young adult novel features a girl who falls in love with a physically abusive guy, but then shows how she is able to get out of the relationship and heal afterward. And it does all that, with beautiful language, in probably 50,000 words.

I haven't read your book, obviously, so maybe it's a lot fuller than the book you describe in your query letter. If it isn't, perhaps you need to work on the manuscript itself before tinkering with the query letter.

Kris,

When I read your query, I wondered the same thing. What kind of an experience would it be for the reader? The key I think is that your character changes, somehow overcomes this situation and triumphs. If she doesn't and either stays in a bad relationship, or things get worse, this will be a tough sell.

I think he gave you some excellent food for thought though.

As someone mentioned as well, Happy Baby, which was a phenomenal, disturbing, moving, raw, emotional, just amazing book, was published by a smaller well respected press. Stephen Elliot didn't even use an agent for that book, just sent it in. Happy Baby is not for everyone, there is a more limited audience, but a smaller press can tap into those smaller markets. This might be an option, and might be worth considering.

AG

Kris, if Angie does "triumph" in the end, all you have to do is "Oprah-ize" your query and you'll have requests coming out the ying-yang.

"Finally, Angie realizes that only she can take control of her own life and reclaim the person she was before this abusive relationship."

You go, girlfriend.

Hey, guys ...

I really appreciate all the feedback and I do realize what you all mean about the comments Grayson made. I think perhaps I need to rework the query, because my intention in the book is to demonstrate how abusive relationships can look quite black and white on the outside (guy abuses girl, girl regains strength, girl leaves @!#$ abuser), but on the inside everything can be quite different. I wanted to get across that although the relationship is brutal and dangerous to Angie, there are facets of Stu she comes to love, and in spite of his treatment of her, the feelings Stu has for her are real.

I hate the automatic assumption that every woman who stays with an abusive man is a masochistic victim, and that every man who abuses a woman is a sadistic loser. I delve deeper into those assumptions in the book - both Stu and Angie have issues that contribute to the conflict, and the feelings between them are stronger than anyone realizes. I didn't want to just wrap everything up in a neat little bow at the end: "There, she left him - isn't she strong?" or "He killed her and goes to prison for life - the bastard deserves it." It's just not that simple in a lot of real life cases.

Stu does change - incredibly, in fact - but it takes two more books (and some prison time) for him to do it. I wanted Victim of Love to delve more deeply into the ties that bind these two characters together, and demonstrate that there is no easy solution. It suprised me while I was writing it that Stu turned out to be a somewhat sympathetic character, because I started out with the idea that he would be black and white(evil), and that Angie would kill him in the end. That didn't happen, though, and what resulted was the other two books.

Soooo ... do y'all think that I need to do some serious reworking of the query? I'd really appreciate any feedback. Thanks.

Kris

Kris,

It depends. How does the book end? If it ends with Angie staying with Stu, and nothing really resolved, then you probably should keep your query as is, and just know there will be a very limited market for a book like this.

However, if you decide to have Angie leave him, or have some uplifting positive change at the end, then just make sure that is reflected in the query, and you will no doubt have more interest.

Whatever you do though, the query should reflect the book, so that it sets the right expectation. There's no point to a query that sets the reader up to expect one thing, and then the story delivers something else entirely. You want to be consistent so that when you get a request, it really is a request for the story you plan to send.

AG

Kris

It's *your* story, so ultimately you have to be the one to decide how to present it. So here's my tuppence ha'penny worth.

I think for a novel of this genre it is too long. Try trimming it down to about 90,000 words, or even less. Cut out as many adjectives and adverbs as you can, and shorten sentences. Try to avoid repetition. This makes it appear tauter, more up to date.

You have to convince the publisher/agent that this one is different from the rest. i.e. "A ground breaking novel that explores the very soul of an abusive relationship, with unflinching honesty."

I'd also expand on the taboo and kinky nature of the sex. It adds spice to the story, and sex sells. i.e. She felt degraded by the shocking nature of these acts of love, yet never more alive and trembling for more.

The names of characters are important too. They should convey as strongly as possible how you want them to appear, and make them stand out from the rest.

If, for instance, Angie became Chelsea, and Stu became Zack, it would smarten up the story and give it a more up to the minute flavour.

And even the title "Victim of Love" might be working against you. It sounds quite passive and lack lustre. "Sex Slave to a Monster," might spice it up a bit. Or you could just call the story "Chelsea" with the caption: Teenage sex slave to a monster.

Good luck, and a Happy New Year!

It seems imprudent to publish Mr. Grayson's name with his response to you. I doubt it's what he expected and it has not helped that you've done so. Simply stating "I q'd a legitimate agent and this was the response" would have worked on this forum.

Something to think about for the future.

Good luck.

I'm not so sure about that. I think it actually may have helped, because it showed Mr. Grayson to be an agent who takes the time to give a considered, thoughtful and possibly helpful answer instead of a form rejection.

AG

"I hate the automatic assumption that every woman who stays with an abusive man is a masochistic victim, and that every man who abuses a woman is a sadistic loser."

Kris

I don’t think this concept is going to be too popular with readers. It’s going to appear like an apologist’s stand for creeps who beat up on women. It could also give heart to some poor battered creatures too scared to leave their abusers. For isn’t that their sick reason for staying? “He’ll change!” Oh yeah, and pigs will fly. A leopard does not change his spots. Behaviours can be modified, but basically we remain the same.

However, I do agree that any woman who allows herself to be thumped has a serious problem as well. Low self-esteem, the condoning and enabling of bizarrely inappropriate behaviour etc. Women with a healthy sense of self, would only be whacked once. Or, threatened once, and they would be outta there pronto.

But taking this a step further. There are many different kinds of violence, and not all of them are physical. There’s verbal abuse; the nagging, taunting and snide remark variety, that batters the spirit and emotions. Couples have to examine their relationships with honesty, and decide if they are truly nurturing and healthy. Or, if they would be better off single? For it’s too easy to fall into a rut known as the path of least resistance.

It seems to me that the quite ridiculous fear of "being alone" -- when every one IS alone, at least essentially --
is at the root of many unfortunate decisions.

Wow, Charlotte--well said on all accounts.

Krissy, again, I made this point weeks ago off-board, and other's have made it here. I've told you of Mare's emotional battery of me, by her ignoring me instead of arguing. She says it's because I'm emotionally abusive and for a long time, ten years, in fact, I insisted she was crazy. Of course, I am a scumbag sometimes, and I had to take a good look at the subtle things I was doing and saying. I used to say, Hey, I don't stay out all night, I don't beat you, I don't ...blah blah blah... But no matter what I thought I was or wasn't doing, the fact was that SHE felt abused. Now, I haven't changed a bit--I do go to unfathomable measures to make sure that I don't say those things anymore--even though I didn't understand why she felt so "victimized" in the first place. I control myself because I love her. Period. In my mind, I should be able to say whatever I think, so long as I don't say things cruelly. But, for her, I have developed a "self-censor" button. I never thought I could.

Now, where your characters are concerned, where is the effort, on either Angie's or Stu's part, to "step-up" and make the necessary changes? Does Angie try to fight him? To leave him? To reclaim herself? I happen to know that she doesn't, not in any real way. And what about Stu? Does he even have any idea that what he's doing to her is downright savagery? that such brutality is wrong, in the most extreme sense of the word? That he needs years and years of therapy? Or just that he's causing her to live in fear and exile from her life before him? NO, on all accounts. There is nothing remotely redeeming about him...or her for that matter. Because a victim who dies, is just a victim...A victim who fights, then dies as a result, is heroic, even in death. We love people who stand up for what is right and righteous. We may pity those who don't, but we certainly don't cheer for them.

You have email, Krissy.

Kris -

Based on what Mitch says here about your book, I REALLY think you should read HAPPY BABY if you haven't already. From the book's Publisher's Weekly review: "A craving for pain is the only constant in the life of Theo, a victim of the child welfare system, in this grim, unrelenting fourth novel by Elliott" and from Booklist: "Don't let the title throw you: Elliott's Happy Baby is anything but. The Stanford University lecturer and former Wallace Stegner Fellow peels back the layers of his painful past in this searing examination of the consequences of sexual abuse. A ward of the state of Illinois from the age of 13 to 18, Elliott recounts his own experiences through the eyes of 36-year-old Theo, a man emotionally eviscerated by years of mental and physical torture."

So there *is* a place for "grim" and "unrelenting" - it just might not be with a major publisher.

Just my opinion, feel free to ignore:

As I've said all along, your biggest hurdle will be pitching a story that sounds creepy and depressing. I happen to like books of that nature, some of them are my favorites, but most readers generally want some kind of acceptable - if not uplifting - resolution.

If you feel strongly that your book is as good as it can be, and you don't want to tack on some contrived happy ending - don't do it. Continue to send out your Q letter and see if you can find an agent who likes books that don't play to the "gotta have a happy ending" reader.

I don't believe that books must have happy endings to sell. A great, sinking raft of writers would never publish a syllable if that were true. The problem, I think, is one of genre. If Kris's book is chicklit, or mainstream women's fiction, or even (heaven forbid) romance, then this query/synop./text won't work, or likely, sell. There are expectations for those books that must be met. We may just have a categorization challenge here. In literary fiction, dark can be lovely and much-admired, even requisite. Horror, fantasy too, what have you. It very much depends on what she's headed for, what she wants, where she sees this. I've read a bit of this ms. and I think it's quite good and believable. I don't know how it all plays out in the end, but I can see it being a hard sell as is. And I understand the heebie-jeebies it might give agents and readers (and women in general). Also, I have said offline that I'm not crazy about the title--it sounds a little drugstore or even harlequin and I think the writing is leagues better than that. The problem is pretty basic, I think--if you're writing for a specific genre you have to pay that price, the reader has to cash out happy; if not, if you want it edgier and different then other sacrifices are made, but more importantly it takes everything up a few notches...writing, plot, conflict, resolution/non-resolution (ok too, in my mind). Right now, this work just may be in-between these two things.

Just thinking. Kris, what do you think? (hope you feel better)

You know, honestly, I thought it was a good query, escept maybe "that older girls and women will find compelling" because you're self-touting. Did you send a sample with it, and they were responding to the sample? Maybe that's what they were talking about? But at least the agent gave you honest feedback. It's better than "this doesn't suit our lists."